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Intercooler size


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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974710 posted 03/06/11 12:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you guys think there is any benefit to having an intercooler bigger than the opening in the bumper cover, i.e. parts of the intercooler get no direct airflow?

Discuss...



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974713 posted 03/06/11 01:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
it is more heat transfer area.....



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974719 posted 03/06/11 03:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
On a sustained pull like the 200mph+ guys do then no. In that case you're limited to the heat that the intercooler can dissipate which will be governed by the exposed surface area. But for short bursts the big factor is the internal volume and the cross-sectional flow area. Daily driving, autocross and even drag-racing fit this bill to some degree. So in those cases then yes, bigger than the bumper opening will still offer improvement in performance -- albeit to less of a degree than increases within the opening.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974725 posted 03/06/11 04:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The bigger the better, even if the opening is smaller then the cooler. As long as you have stuff ducted and sealed right there is only one way for the air to get from the front of the vehical to under it, and that is threw the radiator and what every coolers you have up front. Just look at a factory Corvette setup, their is no main front opening, but a fish mouth deal just before the front end air dam. That tappers up to the size of the radiator, and as fare as I know this cools at around 200mph on the road course at BIR in Minnesota here.

I would just monitor the IAT going into the TB, make sure that is around or below 100 deg and you should be good. Also making sure you have a dense enough core with enough turbulators to transmit the heat from the air charge to the cooler you can make up for a lack or surface area up front for cooling. Just look at the stock Galant VR4 intercooler and the massive air flow that receives behind the factory bumper.

~John



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974770 posted 03/06/11 03:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Some of these answers are a little askew. The air opening to a heat exchanger needs to only be about a 3rd the size of the core for 100% of the air to go through the core. Ducting here plays a HUGE part inthis. The above Corvette is a great example as well as any cutaway of radiators on an F1 or similar car. Another benefit would be less pressure drop across the core as the charge air has more passageways to travel through, assuming you are talking about a side flow intercooler and having it be taller than the opening. A third benefit which was also kind of mentioned is the ability for a larger mass to soak up more heat. This will only be a benefit in short bursts as it needs time to come back to ambient between runs. Another thing to think about is that depending on end tank design the extra core might only receive 1-5% of the air as it won't want to make the turns to get all the way up there.

An awesome intercooler for the Galant would be one that was similar to the ETS unit but a little taller, quite a bit thicker, and with a MUCH better end tank design. They really left a lot on the table with that. But for fab cost + complexity + available space they did the best they good and put out a quality piece.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974807 posted 03/06/11 05:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So, I have a idea. Lets throw one of the few manufacturers that actually make something for a vr4 under the bus. Then lets wonder why nobody else bothers. Then lets back it up with "they tried hard"... Get real, and stop talking shit just to talk shit. No need to mention any certain company by name especially when they make the best by far option that we have for our cars.

Jeesh.. end rant.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974816 posted 03/06/11 05:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not a fan of the ETS end tank design either (or any end tank with 90* corners for that matter). If speaking the truth is throwing someone under the bus, so be it. Truth is truth.

But back to the OP's point, there are two transfers of heat going on: the one from the intake charge to the intercooler and the one from the intercooler to the ambient air. So it sounds like for a daily driver there is some benefit to having the intercooler as big as possible so that it acts like a heat sink since you will only be WOT for short bursts. But for a road racing car, you really need to get as much air as possible to flow over the core to avoid heat soak.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974824 posted 03/06/11 06:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting thedsmguy:

So, I have a idea. Lets throw one of the few manufacturers that actually make something for a vr4 under the bus. Then lets wonder why nobody else bothers. Then lets back it up with "they tried hard"... Get real, and stop talking shit just to talk shit. No need to mention any certain company by name especially when they make the best by far option that we have for our cars.

Jeesh.. end rant.




Not talking shit, just the truth. In fact I own two ETS kits so I can't hate them all that much. I'm just giving my opinion on what kind of intercooler would make me pitch a tent. Something similar to the DVDT Fab ones back in the day maybe just with some flow dividers to leave nothing unaccounted for. Like dis





Very nice! /Borat

Again nothing "wrong" with the ETS kit and I'm sure it's perfect for %90 of Galant owners including myself, maybe I'm just a little more of a discerning end user than the average person?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974832 posted 03/06/11 06:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^ +1

That's a good design with the nice cast end tanks, originally for 2g if I'm not mistaken.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 974887 posted 03/06/11 09:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975005 posted 03/07/11 12:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Very sweet endtanks indeed



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975008 posted 03/07/11 12:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So here is the interesting thing. What is the actual measured pressure drop difference between the ETS design, and the one posted. I've been an ETS end tank hater that has softened up a bit. All this talk is great, but is really useless without empirical data.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975012 posted 03/07/11 12:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Core area, the one for the charge air, will have a much greater impact on pressure drop then endtank design. That's why I like fatter cores even though cooling goes down exponentially with greater thickness. A really nice end tank on too small of a core for a given mass flow will get the air there then it will get all jammed up and cause a large pressure differential. You wqnt a balance of both. I think the ETS core is fine for my airflow level so it would benefit from a smoother end tank design.

A kid I went to school with works at a place where he can measure drop and flow across a large range. If I evr get off my duff and modify one of my cores I will have to have him do a comparo.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975014 posted 03/07/11 12:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In theory the smoother endtank design is mo bettah. In practice, for the majority of us on this forum, it wouldn't make a noticeable difference. I bet you wouldn't even see a difference in the quarter mile.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975186 posted 03/08/11 12:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
When in doubt ready Maximum boost version 2 where some changes were made about this.

Actually probably the best way is the up down with top and bottom end tanks. The runners are shorter yielding a lower pressure drop because runner count is sometimes tripled. Now with that said the intercooler I had was terribly ugly but was very very efficient. So efficient if I drove it at night in the winter and it was raining or sleet/snow coming I would have to place towels on the garage floor under the front of the car when I got home. Crap would build up and freeze to the core.


It was 3 t-bird blackstone cores cut and welded together then had 3 inch supply and outlets welded in a short route fashion .






I wouldn't say this is best but by leaving 3 different cores and going in and out of tubes it made the most off of it but part was just dead weight. This thing weighed about 4 times that of normal tube and fin ebay cores. If I end up putting air to air on mine I'll probably do the same thing except get the cores and lay them so the tubes are oriented up and down.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975363 posted 03/08/11 05:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I have a small front mount that I'm going to put on my car, it's about 26x6x3, so is this going to be worthless with my 16g set up? Should I try for something bigger?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 975874 posted 03/10/11 04:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Definitely not worthless. The core on mine is only 18" x 6" x 3.5" and I have a ported b16g (for now).



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