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over oiling a Ball bearing


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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510585 posted 07/25/07 10:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
a friend of mine has a Fp 3052 and we are wondering if the turbo is toast or what is up. every shift feels like your starting in 1st having to fully respool the turbo. the guy who had it on his car was feeding it from the oil filter housing with no restriction and it had a pretty beefy line.

did the oil pressure kill the bearings on the turbo? or is it just an effect of the turbo getting over oiled?

any help would be appreciated thanks in advance.



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number638
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510594 posted 07/25/07 10:44 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Must be burnt up inside the cartridge it sounds like.

Have you turned it by hand? What does it feel like?
If its anything like your spool up issue, probably not too smooth.

Too much oil pressure is the likely problem. Thats why you have an oil restrictor fitting to go into the oil inlet of a GT turbo. They generally like no more than 45psi.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510596 posted 07/25/07 10:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
its really smooth but you could hear the bearings, once we put some oil there was no sound or anything.



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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510598 posted 07/25/07 10:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
IIRC there should be no play in it at all. maybe carbon build up on the bearing surfaces??? i believe that right around 30 psi is optimal for BB units. but i believe they have a restrictor built for just that.



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JSchleim18
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510600 posted 07/25/07 10:54 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah the GT turbo's should be run with a restrictor and from the head...not the filter housing!



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CP
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510653 posted 07/25/07 12:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Everything from the previous two posts is what I've heard.



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number638
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510699 posted 07/25/07 01:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, now that thats been established...

Your option for a solution?

GT centers are not easily rebuilt, or at least not economically

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510712 posted 07/25/07 01:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Send it back to FP and suck it up.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510782 posted 07/25/07 04:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
is there blue smoke on de-celeration through the tail pipe? Shaft play up, down, and side to side more than usual? Boost leaks? Wastegate not closing? Put a restrictor on it, then see what happens.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510807 posted 07/25/07 05:38 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
you shouldn't need a restrictor if you run the feed from the head, running it off the head is a restrictor

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510814 posted 07/25/07 05:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^ there can potentially be less pressure from the head, but there still needs to be some type of additional restriction in the feed (usually at the turbo itself) to the housing. i believe that some of the BB units have a restrictor built into the inlet bearing housing.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510837 posted 07/25/07 06:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

you shouldn't need a restrictor if you run the feed from the head, running it off the head is a restrictor




not enough of one, which is why fp sells a filter/restrictor piece that's pretty cheap, and i think they give you a better warranty if you run it.

I was under the impression that once you toast the bearings & whatnot on a GT series turbo, the center section was toast.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510838 posted 07/25/07 07:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It could be something wrong with the motor or the tune. It's not likely that over oiling would cause spool to be noticeably slow.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510890 posted 07/25/07 09:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i had a friend who had a bb mutt turbo. he ran his off the filter and had nothing but problems. he sent the turbo back 4 times finally the asked how his oil inlet was routed. bb turbo need restriction! if you by brand x turbo, buy brand x oil feed!



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510909 posted 07/25/07 11:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is he running a manual boost controller and is there a bleed hole between the boost controller and wastegate? If there isn't that would explain the poor spool between shifts; without the bleed hole the wastegate is held open by the trapped air in the line.

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bazeng
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510934 posted 07/26/07 02:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FROM TEAM4G parts database:
I just thought I'd share this information with those with GT turbo's

For those who are running one, oil pressures must remain low. To ensure this if you are running the oil feed from the head, you must run a .125" restrictor (3mm)..... If you are running the oil feed from the oil filter housing, you will require a .8mm restrictor....

Have the restrictor as close to the turbo as possible!
a -4 line is usually used for the feed...

This info is only based on the 4g63..
Info sourced from dsmtalk, provided by forced performance...

Based on the oil pressures generated by the 4g63 which are
25psi @ idle
75psi @ 5000rpm
up to 100-110 psi at cold start and 7000rpm...

NOTE: Balance shaft removal will increase oil pressures

If you do not restrict the turbo feed, it will leak past the seals and you will burn oil out the exhaust....


------------------------

FP database:
GT CHRA Ball bearing applications:

The body of the filter features a built in .8mm restrictor as recommended by Garrett for use with their GT25R, GT30R, GT35R cartridges. Garrett has recommended oil pressure specified for the oil inlet of the GT CHRA. The idle oil pressure at the turbo should be 9psi and oil pressure at 5000rpm should be 30psi. The .8mm restrictor will reduce an engine with 25psi oil pressure at idle, 75psi oil pressure at 5000rpm to these Garrett recommended pressures.

4G63 Specific info:

When using the FP4ANFilter on an oil supply line that originates at the filter housing on the 4G63 engine, the .8mm restrictor results in the Garrett recommened pressure at the turbocharger oil inlet. For 4G63 engines that feed the turbo oil off the cylinder head, the .8mm restrictor should be drilled out to .125”. The normal 4G63 engine has low enough oil pressure at the head oil supply port that the .8mm orifice is not required. The filter element provides all the restriction needed to get the oil inlet pressure down to the Garrett recommended values.


---------------
More info:


---------------
My restrictor i made with a grub screw that screwed into the oil fitting before the turbo



---------------

also make sure your oil drain is not restricted also, this is a big cause of turbo failures with honda's i've played with which were blowing blue smoke (turbo seals)
once the drains were modified to a larger size, they blue smoke went away!

(picture of mine)




-----------------

And from what I am aware of, a little shaft play is normal

have you looked at other parts of the motor? such as the blow off valve?
could it be sticking open as you shift causing the lag?

good luck!


Edited by bazeng (07/26/07 02:29 AM)

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510937 posted 07/26/07 04:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm getting ready to slap a BB turbo on my car and here is a pic of the modded feed bolt for the head (see much smaller feed hole) I'm also going to run the FP 10 micron in-line filter on the feed line.




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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510943 posted 07/26/07 05:58 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
When i purchased my GT turbo from PTE...they supplied a restrictor fitting right on the turbo...also use an inline fuel filter on that same line...GT's don't like dirty oil



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510948 posted 07/26/07 06:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
MRVR4,
the only problem i see with the banjo bolt restrictor on the head is that it will take a much longer time for the oil to get to the turbo....

what do you think?



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mistaVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 510995 posted 07/26/07 08:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I haven't heard that, but logically that makes sense. Has anyone heard anything bad about using a banjo like this vs. a restrictor right at the turbo?



SteveW
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 511073 posted 07/26/07 12:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
From what I have read and experienced with my BB turbo, if you don't use an orfice you will blow the seals in the turbo, as far as knocking the bearings out, I really don't think that it would. And when a seal blows in a BB turbo, you know it. It blows more smoke then Digit does. J/K Digit, LOL.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 511110 posted 07/26/07 01:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ya this turbo doesnt blow smoke at all.

to the digit comment



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 511160 posted 07/26/07 04:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is the BOV working and bypassing/venting enough air to keep the turbo spooled between shifts ?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 511246 posted 07/26/07 10:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I haven't heard that, but logically that makes sense. Has anyone heard anything bad about using a banjo like this vs. a restrictor right at the turbo?




The banjo bolt I got from FP for my 3052 has the smaller hole to restrict oil flow to the turbo. Been working fine for almost two years now. FWIW, I also don't use an inline filter.



-Mark

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 511831 posted 07/28/07 12:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Thanks Mark! Thats what I wanted to hear, do you think the filter could be overkill as far as reducing oil press. to much? Or will that also be a good idea to put inline?



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