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Axles and Diffs


cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480719 posted 05/17/07 08:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well my car is slowly trying to own me. It is as if it doesn't want to run or is resisting every USDM part that I throw at it.

Here are pictures of the chromoly driveshaftshop front axles and the OEM axles that came with my 4-Bolt rear: -



Now, I tried to fit the OEM USDM axles with my ATS carbon rear lsd and they DON'T ... 'fit' that is. This photo shows the USDM axles next to my original JDM VR4 rear axles: -



Notice how both the JDM axles are the same length at the ends whilst the TEL ones are different, one considerably longer than the other. Here are some photos with a ruler. The JDM axles are 3 inches each. The TEL ones are shy of 3" on the Left axle and over 4" on the right!



I am shooting in the dark here but I guess that this may be an issue with the ATS diff seeing as it is Japanese in origin. I have heard of some diffs requiring some special parts to make them work with US axles. I PM'd Alex and he said that the different length rear axles are consistent with a viscous rear diff.

The good news is that the JDM axles fit. The bad news is I am betting my driveshaftshop rear axles are the same as the TEL ones above and won't work with the ATS diff. Can anyone confirm this?

I am also worried about the DSS fronts now. Is this likely to be an issue with a front diff as well? Am I going to have to use stock JDM axles from now on? The driveshaftshop stuff makes expensive paperweights if I can't make it work!

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IslandVr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480722 posted 05/17/07 08:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think all you have to do is run two of the shorter usdm axles. the dsm limited slip uses that longer axle to engage the diff.

Whoops didnt look close enough. try this pop the inboard cv housing off your old jdm axle & swap it to the usdm one.

The inbord joint is much simpler to deal with. it's just a tripod housing & slips right out once the boot is removed. best case the tripods are the same size & you can just swap the housing.

worser case, the tripod is a different size & you have to swap them as well. Just an external snap ring.

worstest (heh he, new word ) case, even the splines on the end of the axel are different. Got nothing for you on that one.


Edited by IslandVr4 (05/17/07 08:58 PM)

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Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
439/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480725 posted 05/17/07 08:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can donate the paper weights to me if you would like

But any way that sucks that you can't use the DSS back ones. I think you will be fine with the fronts. I did a engine swap one time and the engine came with the tranny, transfer case and two front axles and they worked fine.



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


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Brianawd
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480728 posted 05/17/07 09:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

I think all you have to do is run two of the shorter usdm axles. the dsm limited slip uses that longer axle to engage the diff




this should work. You may be able to send the longer one back to DSS and have them send you the shorter one



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480736 posted 05/17/07 09:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

You may be able to send the longer one back to DSS and have them send you the shorter one


that would suck too....shipping would be retarded.......i'm hoping you can just swap inboard CV's. edit: my other bad idea seems impossible after looking at the pics more closely....damn, Paul, you are not getting much love with this thing.....



Rance lives here...
Founder of Sold out to BMW Cru, then sold out there too.



Edited by VRausch4 (05/17/07 09:09 PM)

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480737 posted 05/17/07 09:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks guys! But do you think there will be a problem with the shorter USDM axle not 'fully engaging' all of the splines. If you look at the photos above the JDM axles are almost half an inch longer than the shorter USDM axle. Surely that means a significant amount of the splines aren't going to be properly engaged inside the diff?



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480740 posted 05/17/07 09:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

that would suck too....shipping would be retarded.




Ok then let just put them aside and forget about them. Lets just waste all the money he spent on them.



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480742 posted 05/17/07 09:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
make a few paint or chalk marks or something on the splines, install them, and turn the assembly some, you should be able to see where the "edges of engagement" are on the splines. hopefully the shorter axle splines will just not hang over the gear on the inner edge as much...

Quote:

Ok then let just put them aside and forget about them. Lets just waste all the money he spent on them.


that would indeed be a waste, but if he can get something to work in the interim....



Rance lives here...
Founder of Sold out to BMW Cru, then sold out there too.



Edited by VRausch4 (05/17/07 09:18 PM)

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Brianawd
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480745 posted 05/17/07 09:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think you are right about the usdm axle not being long enough.



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


Posts: 2117 | From: Portland OR, | Member Since: 04/18/05 | IP: (24.20.195.6) | Report this post to a Moderator

Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
439/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480749 posted 05/17/07 09:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=48901&width=400
http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=48902&width=400

The first pic looks to be a 3bolt axle and the 2nd pic looks to be a 4bolt axle. If that is the case they are different size. So that would be why your axles fit because the LSD was made for a car that came with out it


Edited by Brianawd (05/17/07 09:26 PM)

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Rausch Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480753 posted 05/17/07 09:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^^ eesh, i think he may be right....didn't even think of that.



Rance lives here...
Founder of Sold out to BMW Cru, then sold out there too.


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91vr4evolution
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480826 posted 05/17/07 11:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^I don't think so, both sets of axles have the tripod cup on the diff end of them.

It looks like you have a set of vicsous LSD axles (the ones with the extra spline), and a set of open/plate LSD axles.

I had a similar situation with my original (non RS) VR4 Evo. It had a viscous LSD from factory, with the tripods with the extra splines. When I purchased the Evo2 LSD, I was lucky that it had the tripods with it. It was simply a case of swapping the tripods over.

Edit: Paul PM Nick "NZ VR4 RS", as he has a set of ATS diffs fitted or ready to go into his RS (4bolt), so he may have sussed it out already.


Edited by 91vr4evolution (05/17/07 11:55 PM)

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Brianawd
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480828 posted 05/17/07 11:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
http://www.galantvr4.org/img.php?id=48900&width=400

That is two 3bolt axles and two 4bolt axles



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


Posts: 2117 | From: Portland OR, | Member Since: 04/18/05 | IP: (24.20.195.6) | Report this post to a Moderator

Brianawd
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480830 posted 05/18/07 12:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

^^I don't think so, both sets of axles have the tripod cup on the diff end of them.




What the hell are you talking about? The shape of the cup does not say if its a 4bolt or a
3bolt

Edit: My bad have not been around a 3bolt on a long time I forgot what it looked like. You win



Edited by Brianawd (05/18/07 12:19 AM)

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91vr4evolution
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480835 posted 05/18/07 12:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
then show me a 3bolt...

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91vr4evolution
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480838 posted 05/18/07 12:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Damn! I was just about to hit you with a pic and smart-ass comment..LOL!...no worries!

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1sicvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480850 posted 05/18/07 02:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Since were on the topic if I upgrade to 4 bolt axles will my vr4 be able to handle hard launching without the fear of me breaking axles?

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keydiver
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480903 posted 05/18/07 08:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
One axle, I believe it is the passenger's side, ALWAYS will have that 2-step spline, no matter whether it is a 3-bolt LSD or a 4-bolt LSD. So, I agree that what you have there is a non-LSD DSM set of axles. As long as the axles that you have coming are for the same vintage LSD as your diff (3-bolt or 4-bolt) they should work.

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Brianawd
Higher Launch RPM
439/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 480910 posted 05/18/07 08:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Damn! I was just about to hit you with a pic and smart-ass comment..LOL!...no worries!




Still can. I have it coming. I don't think I have looked at a 3bolt rear end in over a year and even at that I just pulled and tossed did not even look at what it was. I am so used to just seeing 4bolt shit or broke 4bolt shit



1992 Gaylant vr4 #439/1000
11.1at131 562awhp/484awtq
E85 FP3052 parted out
05 EB EVO SSL 11.48at124mph
450awhp/400awtq New 2.3 e85 hks 7460r
05 JEEP liberty CRD DD/ski slut
200hp/385tq


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supervr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481043 posted 05/18/07 12:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I may be going the wrong way here but your JDM axles are for a plate lsd and you TEL ones are for a viscous LSD. The question is what is the ATS diff plate or viscous? and what did you order from DSS.

From memory Nick nzvr4rs had a plate LSD as a factory option in his RS thats why his ATS fitted with out any issues as he allready had the plate lsd axles.

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481052 posted 05/18/07 12:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah that is my situation. I had a plate diff which I upgraded to the ATS carbon plate diff. The original JDM axles therefore fit. It seems it was my bad for buying DSS shafts that were built for a 4-Bolt viscous diff rear.

You live and learn!



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481164 posted 05/18/07 04:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This question is somewhat on the same topic: Does anyone know for sure if the non-lsd USDM 3 bolt driver's side axle is the same as the USDM 3 bolt LSD driver's side? Most of the threads I found discussing this stated they were the same, but I saw one statement in a thread saying the opposite. Seeing Cheeky's pics of the USDM LSD vs. the JDM non-LSD have me wondering.



-Jeff
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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481304 posted 05/19/07 06:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Those JDM axles are LSD axles for a RS plate diff 4 bolt rear end!



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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grocery_getter
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481324 posted 05/19/07 08:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is the shaft diameter different at the different steps? If the axle end itself is the same and just an issue with the one from DSS being too long, can't you just find a machinist in town that can put this on a lathe and cut the extra small end and cut the groove for the retainer ring on the splined section of the DSS axle?



Andre
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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 481338 posted 05/19/07 10:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Andre,

That actually might be feasible for the long axle. I am still concerned however that the shorter axle will be a weak link because the splines cannot be pushed all the way in. We have cleaned and reassembled the JDM axles using new boots and grease. I'm sure they will be fine for now. I don't intend doing any hard launching yet. I'll deal with this after I've got the car running. By the way, your chromoly arms look the business!



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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