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3kGT VR4 front Tein HA fitment on GVR4


BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217354 posted 05/12/05 09:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Title says it - I picked up a cheap set of used front 3kGT VR4 Tein HAs on eBay to replace the GVR4's dead GAB fronts. The lower mount is a direct bolt-on, but the pillowball upper mount has much larger 3-bolt spacing. However, it does appear that there is plenty of material to redrill the upper mount to the GVR4 spacing. As bonus, the coilovers should give me some much-needed front wheel clearance.

The overall strut lengths are comparable, so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The Tein springs on the other hand might be - 12 kg/mm [670 lb/in]. Tein does not recommend going under 10 kg/mm [560 lb/in] for this strut damping, so this might be a killer stiff ride.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

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Yiuwa
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217403 posted 05/13/05 12:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My friend did a similar thing on his E39A with Tein HR from 3kGT VR4 (again because he bumped into an extremely good deal set in junkyard). His set didn't come along with pillowball upper mount, and he ended up using the stock one from E39A. It does fit but as you said the ride is extremely stiff

Let us know how it goes, and ideally some pix



1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217427 posted 05/13/05 06:31 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
maybe just buy some tein camber plates for an e39a & swap them ?



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Ted Andkilde
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217445 posted 05/13/05 07:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey Kyle

You could always try it with softer springs and see how it feels, FWIW, cranking the damping up on front or 4wd cars can help front turn-in when autocrossing, can also cause terminal, cone killing, understeer if the surface is too bumpy.

You could also send them to Larry Parker in Detroit to see if he could revalve them.

Cheers, Ted



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Edited by Ted Andkilde (05/13/05 07:39 AM)

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217533 posted 05/13/05 12:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
G-
Quote:

maybe just buy some tein camber plates for an e39a & swap them ?




But that'd be easy and cost money as opposed to just drilling new holes. I can be a cheap bastard at times.

Ted-
Quote:

You could always try it with softer springs and see how it feels... You could also send them to Larry Parker in Detroit to see if he could revalve them.




Good point about Larry, I hadn't thought about revalving them. I'll try them as-is and work from there. That's the fun part...

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217634 posted 05/13/05 09:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
uh tein camber plates cost $150.00.

$75.00 a piece.



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sixspeedlegacy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217911 posted 05/15/05 10:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
even though there may be a good amount of material i would be concerned about taking away from the integrity of a critical part such as suspension, you will be weakening the metal so it will be more prone to fatigue, i would just use the stock top mounts or if you really want to have the camber plates just do it right and buy some.

you know what would be really cheap is replacing your whole car when a strut breaks loose ;-)

Ben

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bob in chicago
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217946 posted 05/15/05 02:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
"tein camber plates cost $150.00"
Great! Who sells them in USA?

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217952 posted 05/15/05 03:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

even though there may be a good amount of material i would be concerned about taking away from the integrity of a critical part such as suspension, you will be weakening the metal so it will be more prone to fatigue, i would just use the stock top mounts or if you really want to have the camber plates just do it right and buy some.

you know what would be really cheap is replacing your whole car when a strut breaks loose ;-)

Ben




He'll be fine. If people all thought like this we'd never mod our cars because we might do something the mfg didn't intend

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217967 posted 05/15/05 04:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

"tein camber plates cost $150.00"
Great! Who sells them in USA?




any of these guys can order them for you :

http://www.tein.com/dealer/il.html

tein has them in stock here in the u.s.



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bob in chicago
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 217978 posted 05/15/05 05:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry, but I looked all over the Tein site and did not see part number for a front pillow ball mount to fit 1991 Galant AWD Turbo.

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Faustus
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218057 posted 05/15/05 09:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I just had a set on mine. I bought them a couple of months ago, so I know they are out there to get.

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sixspeedlegacy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218104 posted 05/16/05 02:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Quote:

even though there may be a good amount of material i would be concerned about taking away from the integrity of a critical part such as suspension, you will be weakening the metal so it will be more prone to fatigue, i would just use the stock top mounts or if you really want to have the camber plates just do it right and buy some.

you know what would be really cheap is replacing your whole car when a strut breaks loose ;-)

Ben




He'll be fine. If people all thought like this we'd never mod our cars because we might do something the mfg didn't intend





lol, sorry to be so conservative, as you can see i am with my car as well, putting a tranny thats not supposed to be on there and a turbo on a 10:1 compression NA block.

obviously people wouldnt mod their cars if people didnt do things differently, however that doesnt mean everyone does things correctly or safe when modding them, myself included, however i am just saying from a somewhat engineering standpoint it doesnt seem too sound especially doing it to such a critical part of the car. have you modeled that top plate in a stress program to see what adding those extras holes will do to stress points and cyclic failure? i havent, but i also know i would not drill extra holes in a tophat.

maybe i am picturing it wrong, but i am just trying to offer a technical opinion, clearly you outrank me on the board so i am sure my comments wont mean much but i am just trying to help.

Ben


Edited by sixspeedlegacy (05/16/05 02:15 AM)

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3Diamond
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218105 posted 05/16/05 02:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You have turbo on a NA block? How much boost?



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sixspeedlegacy
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218106 posted 05/16/05 02:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
11psi

Ben

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218706 posted 05/17/05 12:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ben,

Seriously, I do appreciate the concern about weakening the strut mount. But you'll see when I post pics that there is plenty of material to work with. Any reduction in strength from drilling three new holes is not going to be significant since the original holes will be outside the main load area towards the edges. Worst case even if I'm wrong, I'm putting no one at risk except myself.

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bob in chicago
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218794 posted 05/17/05 04:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well, I ordered a set from a local store. I have a template (thanks to Steve Reidmueller) which I will use to check bolt pattern when they arrive.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218816 posted 05/17/05 05:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i've got a set of tein camber plates in my garage nib, with the part #, but then i would have to get up & go out to my garage.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218822 posted 05/17/05 05:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ok here it is #PAR08-31PFR



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218823 posted 05/17/05 05:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Sorry, but I looked all over the Tein site and did not see part number for a front pillow ball mount to fit 1991 Galant AWD Turbo.




http://www.tein.co.jp/pumnt2e.html



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 218831 posted 05/17/05 05:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What diameter shock rod do they fit?

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 221762 posted 05/26/05 09:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Pivvay,

The 3kGT VR4 and TEL Tein part#s are the same for the locknut, spacer ring and bump rubber, and the E39A HAs are designed to use the stock upper spring seat so I'm pretty comfortable that all of the shock rods are the same size at the spring mount.

G - thanks for the part# for the Tein E39A pillowball, I didn't even think to look on the JDM site. After closer inspection, the 3kGT top mount is not going to work without some significant modification that I am uncomfortable with. Time to sell them off and go with the right parts.

FWIW, the D27A [TEL 1G AWD] Tein front pillowball assembly is part# PAR80-31PFR. I wonder what the difference is between the TEL and GVR4 E39A pillowballs is...

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 222050 posted 05/27/05 05:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
they mount different, rotated one way or the other i forgot.
how much you want for the suspension ?
got any pix ?



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

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SPAM
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 222132 posted 05/28/05 01:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
FWIW...I have a set of Tein adjustable front upper mounts for the VR4. Just the mounts only. I dont have the bolt or washer but you should be able to use the ones from the 3KGT setup. I dont plan on using these so if you would like to try them on your car feel free. If they fit you can buy them fairly cheap, if they dont...you can just send them back. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 223184 posted 06/01/05 10:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Okay, quick summary of the differences between 3kGT and GVR4 F suspension fitment, correcting some of the errors in my earlier statements and clarifying other questions:

  • 3kGT hub mounts are 3.5mm wider [25.5 vs. 22mm]
  • 3kGT OEM shock overall length is ~= TEL @ 480mm, ~20mm shorter than GVR4
  • 3kGT top plate mounting bolt pattern is much wider
  • 3kGT / TEL Tein camber plate alignment is rotated ~90deg to mounting bolts
  • 3kGT, TEL, GVR4 Tein camber plates interchange [mount spacing issues still apply]
  • Tein uses 12.5mm F / 22mm R piston rods for most applications [here]
  • Tein 3kGT camber plate is flat like GVR4
  • Tein TEL camber plate is recessed [overall taller] than GVR4
  • Tein will not sell just the top plate - only the complete pillowball assembly.


I think that is enough. If SPAM has plates I can use, I'll go that way. Otherwise I'm going to look into purchasing a set of Tein pillowballs if the price is reasonable.

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