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Anyone know?


prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199211 posted 01/21/15 03:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Anyone know what machining is needed to convert a 14b center section to fit the 20G wheel? Yea, I know a bastard question, but been digging for info on the exact machining that needs to be done. Not looking for a how to, nor the compressor cover machining. I got a guy willing to machine the housing for me, but he's clueless on what to machine and how much.



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AllanL
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199256 posted 01/21/15 08:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
measure the outer diameter of the 14B comp wheel.

measure the outer diameter of the 20G comp wheel.

the depth of the step where the comp wheel sits are the same, just the outer diameter of the wheels are different, and thus needs to be made bigger going from 14B to 20G.

14B is approx 58mm [2.285"], so the center section is approx 59mm.

20G is approx 68 [2.2680"], so center section is approx 69mm.

he'd have to bore the step where the comp wheel sits by 10mm.

hth

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199307 posted 01/22/15 07:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks, I was wondering if that's all it was. Wasn't sure if the superback design needed to have anything special.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199334 posted 01/22/15 11:32 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was under the impression the super back recess was deeper - or more so sloped but unsure how much by.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199366 posted 01/22/15 06:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The plate behind the 14b wheel is flat, whereas the 16g+ back plate is concave. You should be able to swap in a 16g back plate and then machine the compressor housing to fit the 20g wheel. They actually sell the 16g-20g conversion on ebay and it consists of only a wheel and machined housing.

Wiz



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AllanL
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199369 posted 01/22/15 06:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

Thanks, I was wondering if that's all it was. Wasn't sure if the superback design needed to have anything special.




the flat back/super back wheel difference basically does not have any relation to the housing bore.

the back plate is what 'decides' it for the wheel back shape.

converted 14B --> 16G --> 20G twice already...

hth

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199434 posted 01/23/15 08:50 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So really all I need to do is have the center section machined a lil bigger to accept the new wheel then? No tapering or anything special? Just make the circle bigger?



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AllanL
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199481 posted 01/23/15 04:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Correct.

Your machinist will know what to do if you show him both 14B and 20G wheels and the center housing WITHOUT the back plate...

center bore step dia = wheel/esducer diam + 1~1.5 should be just right.

But he can verify the step bore using the 14B installed on the center housing...


Edited by AllanL (01/23/15 04:20 PM)

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199503 posted 01/23/15 07:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah the taper is only in the center piece that comes with the rebuild kit.

Just increase the diameter of the step to make the wheel fit. Machine the thrust surface to accommodate the 18mm spacer and then the cover. That's a little more difficult but the same idea.



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Wizardawd
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199530 posted 01/24/15 12:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting AllanL:

Quoting prove_it:

Thanks, I was wondering if that's all it was. Wasn't sure if the superback design needed to have anything special.




the flat back/super back wheel difference basically does not have any relation to the housing bore.

the back plate is what 'decides' it for the wheel back shape.

converted 14B --> 16G --> 20G twice already...

hth




But you can't just slap a 16g/20g wheel and matching housing onto a 14b center cartridge. You have to change the backing plate (the one directly under the compressor wheel) to the G style for anything 16g+. That was my point.

Wiz



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199565 posted 01/24/15 01:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I don't think anyone disagreed. In fact I concurred.

Purchase list
-superback rebuild kit
-20g wheel

Machine
-compressor cover
-cartrage step diameter
-thrust spacer diamater

Or obviously you could just buy a new cover as well.



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prove_it
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199686 posted 01/26/15 08:25 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Already got a 20G machined comp housing in a box of parts. That's why I'm looking at just getting parts, having a local machine do the center housing, and assemble it myself. Now that it's not a daily, I'm not too worried if it fails and the car is down for a week.



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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199689 posted 01/26/15 09:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I still haven't heard anything from turbo lab about my rebuild kit. They did make me a cover for I want to say $35 last time I asked. If you do get it from them ask them to open up the inlet as much as possible. They didn't touch mine only the impeller profile. They have a decent price on the rebuild kit and wheel too. I hope the send you the right parts the first time though.



7 1G DSM's now a GGSX build.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199692 posted 01/26/15 09:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
loL. Not sure who I'm going to source parts from. 14of2000 (Mike) had a bastard built by them, no issues on his, also the new owner of it said it's working great, so long term is looking good.

I'm more concerned with a cheap wheel as I'll be pushing it hard. Dunno, trial and error I suppose.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199699 posted 01/26/15 11:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Why not just buy a 20g?

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199703 posted 01/26/15 12:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cause I have a good turbine wheel, mitsu center section, and a machined cover laying around. Hmmmm 150 in parts, or 800 for a new turbo.......

If I had the funds, (ie not needing to repair a blown trans) I would go with a 68hta with the flow enhancement cover.

Also, I auto-x this thing so I really like the spool of a TD05h turbine wheel, but looking for more high end my s16g has. A b16G would be dumb as there isn't much gain from the S16G, so....

Why not hack up one of my several blown 14Bs into a bastard with a modded 16G cover for downfiring for less than 150 bucks?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199710 posted 01/26/15 02:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you have a good Turbine housing?

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199719 posted 01/26/15 06:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Turbo lab has an online store (on Ebay click ) I was looking through the other day. They have a bunch of billet 20g compressor wheel options. The thing is, I'm not sure what the quality on these things is. If you look around on Ebay, you see what appear to be the same wheels offered up out of Japan and China from other sellers, which I would take to be a bad sign. But, maybe not? I'm kinda just making the Ebay assumption here, and could very well be wrong. I looked around on T00ners, and Turbo Lab of America didn't seem to have a great rep over there. I have a few shitty 14b's laying around myself I wouldn't mind playing around with. Let us know what parts you decide to go with, Ryan.

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tektic
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199724 posted 01/26/15 06:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Like I said before what I read in multiple places was that tdo5 can't push a 20g hard enough to make a difference between the billit and the narrow shaft cast impellers. The builit wheels cost 2-3 times what the cast ones do. Also take weight I to consideration before you decide. The cast wheels are usually lighter. If you can find flow charts post em.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199754 posted 01/26/15 10:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Anyone know where you can get a stock appearing compressor cover that'll fit the 20g compressor wheel?

Alternatively, what are guys running the down firing 20g compressor covers doing for the WG actuator?



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199765 posted 01/27/15 02:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
14Bs and 16G comp covers will need to be machined to fit the 20G wheel. click

the back side of aftermarket 20G covers can be tapped for the mounting holes of the WGA...

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199766 posted 01/27/15 04:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can just buy TD05H style housings designed for the 20G wheel new, of course they are aftermarket chinese knock-offs but they look good and do the job fine. The compressor inlet is enlarged slightly too so it's not dangerously thin like when you machine a 14B or 16G housing.




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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199776 posted 01/27/15 08:07 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting jeverts:

Do you have a good Turbine housing?




Yes, highly ported 7cm EVO 3 housing. Polished to a mirror with a perfect blend to the evo 3 O2 housing.

Yep, the billet wheels are reported to have minimal gains over the cast wheels. Not worth it in my opinion. Research has also shown to me that the extended tips don't do as much either, plus they supposedly eating the bearings as there is way more weight moved too far out.

Been thinking about buying a new turbine wheel and having it clipped too.


Anyone know how to spot a knock off center section? I got one, but can't tell if it's fake or not.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199779 posted 01/27/15 08:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have a chinabay 16G center section. The standard MHI rebuild kit does not fit.
Bearings of the chinabay CHRA are bigger. Almost the size of a Garrett CHRA.



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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1199782 posted 01/27/15 08:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Any measurements? I got one in a pile and if it's a mitsu center section then all I need is a wheel and rebuild kit. It's got a 20g base circle.



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