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Expo trans? New source? Update: It fits.


holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 252690 posted 09/01/05 09:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I want to put this brand new, never installed trans in my car:

BUT, its for a Mitsu Expo, number W5M33-2 NNXL. It was used in the 93 and later Expo (and Eagle Summit and Colt Vista). The 92 Expo had a different submodel (NNXZ) that was the same except for first gear (column K in table below). Sounds like they're mixing parts for the expo trannys too. Anyway, I've done alot of research and I think it will work fine. The ratios appear to be the same as the gvr4. Below are the NNXL submodel and the 92 gvr4 submodel ratio data (L column). The one gearing difference I know of is for the speedometer gear which I plan to replace with the one from my gvr4 trans.

Using my vin and expo vins I found in some for-sale ads on the web, I checked part numbers of internal trans components, and other stuff, using CAPS. Much, but not all is the same. The front diff case with the speedometer gear drive teeth carved in it is the same. Front diff side gears - same, front axle seals - same, rear diff ring/pinion - same, TC gears - same. I didn't check everything though. One or maybe all of the shafts were different numbers, and I think maybe some of the synchros and gears. Anyway, what I'm thinking is that maybe this expo trans has the upgraded synchros, etc., that I would want anyway.
So, my questions to the tranny-smart people here are:
1a) Why wouldn't I put this trans in my 91 gvr4?
1b) Solutions/alternative(s) to anything from 1a?
2) Am I overlooking anything else?
Here's a couple pics from the ebay ad...



Edited by holeshotmoe (09/07/05 01:46 PM)

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
Turn Right Racing
855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 252737 posted 09/01/05 12:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Final drive ratio same? I think that is the first "N", but can't remember for sure.



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 252748 posted 09/01/05 12:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Finals are the same. Forgot to put the column headings into my table chop job. With headings below:

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MattPark
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 252811 posted 09/01/05 02:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Maybe it has the dual cone second and the big 3-4 synchros since it's a 93.

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TurboTommy
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 252834 posted 09/01/05 03:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
expo trans is the same as 2g

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holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 253102 posted 09/02/05 10:11 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In a thread from Forced Style about putting a 2g tranny in our cars, here that mentions a plate that is needed, and a weight on the shifer arm needing to be removed. What plate would I need - one from a expo? And the weight - is this something on the outside, on the shifter arms that the cables attach to? I don't recall seeing anything like that on mine.


Edited by holeshotmoe (09/03/05 09:44 AM)

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Jonvr4
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 253277 posted 09/02/05 03:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hey moe change the link to a hyper link.

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holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 253410 posted 09/03/05 09:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
(link fixed)
So, what plate do I need and what weight is it speaking of?



Done there, been that

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spooling92vr4
Yeah Toast! * Now with JELLY!!!
829/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 253432 posted 09/03/05 11:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i feel like maybe the shifter linkage and bracket on the tranny is different, maybe it because the tranny is much cleaner then im used to seeing.. if your talking about the starter plate then you use the plate from the tranny for the most part... meaning most likely 2g awd.....im sure that tranny would work though



92 vr4 belize green # 829/1000....NOW RUNS! still needs tuning


Edited by spooling92vr4 (09/03/05 11:55 AM)

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holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 254799 posted 09/07/05 03:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Did the install this weekend. Wow! Smooooth shifting. There were a few differences.
1. The bell housing on the expo seems to be reinforced somewhat.


The cable bracket and shifter arms were different. I tried to get the pin out of the old trans so I could move the arms to the new one but I couldn't budge it, even with a bigger hammer. I ended up using the new stuff all the way, but I had to adjust the linkage at the shifter so it would go into 1st/2nd. Moving the shifter hard left was not pushing the cable forward far enough, so I gave the adjuster 3-4 turns and it was fine.

The speedometer drive gears were different too. The gvr4 gear has 30 teeth, the expo only 28. I was willing to live with an inaccurate gauge but I didn't have to. Though the gears were different diameters, the drive shaft on the expo gear was offset to compensate (see the yellow arrow pointing to the ledge in the bottom picture. Now I knew the galant gear would fit the expo tranny.



The other thing I had to do was to "make" the thin metal plate between the tranny and the block fit. Once the original tranny was out, I took rough measurements to make sure everything lined up. Well, I didn't pick up that there was a 1/4" - 3/8" clockwise rotation of the starter bolts. I'd read that I would need the plate that came with the tranny but mine had never been on a car (so there was no doner car) and I had no idea where to look for an AWD expo (nor the time) to get one. So, after bolting the new tranny up, I learned the holes in the plate didn't match the new trans. The below picture is of the old trans. The red circles show the approximate location of where the starter holes were on the new tranny. I ended up elongating the holes in the plate by about 3/8" in the clockwise direction as you're facing the engine from the rf fender. The big cut-out in the plate for the head of the starter was fine. The bolt hole positions were the only problem with the plate. I recommend that you make the mod while the plate is off so as to avoid the mess, i.e., grit and steel powder.

Well, now we know the expo trans is a potential replacement for the galant. BTW, the expo tranny TC driveshaft had 23 splines, same as my TC.


Edited by holeshotmoe (09/07/05 03:38 PM)

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic
475/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 254825 posted 09/07/05 04:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nice find. I give you 5 stars. Oh we don't do that anymore.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
Greenhouse Effect Green
Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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ken inn
BJ Titsengolf lifer


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 292917 posted 01/10/06 04:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
bitchen article. almost makes me want to go out and get another vr4. almost.



A Veteran is some one who at one point in his or her life wrote a blank check made payable to the government for any amount up to and including my life.

Remember Freedom is not Free!

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Mr_HYDE
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 292966 posted 01/10/06 07:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

expo trans is the same as 2g




What he said. There are a couple of AWD 5spd Turbo Minivans running around with 2G AWD trannys

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DarkDevilMMM
if I want a potential headache, I rather just get another GVR4
335/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293137 posted 01/11/06 09:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
this thread just caught my eye, so you mean we can put a 2G tranny in our car? I always thought the tranny mount is different between 1G and 2G



huh?

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GVR4ZUM
Senior Member
734/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293155 posted 01/11/06 10:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Nice holeshotmoe.
Yes, yes should go to How to Section.



Aufrecht Melcher Grossaspach
734/2000

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Mr_HYDE
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293319 posted 01/11/06 05:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

this thread just caught my eye, so you mean we can put a 2G tranny in our car? I always thought the tranny mount is different between 1G and 2G




Correct me if I'm wrong [and I often am] but the front and rear motor mount brackets for the minivan connect to the tranny right? If so then yes the 2G tranny works. Even if the motor mounts connect to the engine [1g style] the 2G tranny still works, as the engine to tranny bolt pattern is the same.

The deciding factor would be the gear ratio's, which has already been discussed in this thread.

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lgvr4
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293356 posted 01/11/06 07:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Be very careful with this tranny, this is exactly what I had in my car w5m332nnxz when it locked up. I am on my 4th rear end because of this thing, 2 three bolts and 2 4 bolt to be exact. Not to long ago, I asked for some help from the good people here on this board when I notice that everytime I back up with the wheels turned, the car feels like it's being held back. I just kept driving it thinking that its ok, but it finally locked up on the freeway.

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holeshotmoe
subclass marmoreus


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293605 posted 01/12/06 02:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Mine was the nnxl. But still, both the nnxl(92-94) and nnxz (92 anyway) submodels share the same final ratios with the gvr4. But, we're talking stock. Before I bought it I input the vins from the expos and gvr4s into caps and compared gear part numbers to make sure. After I had it in my livingroom (damn straight baby), I manually confirmed the ratios by rotating the input shaft against both f/r outputs. Same-O. So, your situation sounds like:
1. You have a welded front diff (you mentioned turning + racket), or
2. Your nnxz trans is not stock (e.g., center diff, gears, replaced with non stock pts), or
3. The rears you had/replaced are incorrect ratios.
The last issue happened to me. I bought a ggsx from the orig. owner. The dealer, yup, and I'll name - Ourisman Mitsu in MD, put a used diff in for her from the junk yard. Wrong ratio! Argh. It smoked the VC and outboard bearing on the intermediate trans shaft though. You can confirm the rear ratio by jacking up a wheel and spinning the tire while counting driveshaft revs. Somebody on here might even be able to tell you the gvr4 rear diff ratio. Think it is 3.545.

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powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 293912 posted 01/13/06 02:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes, you are correct. Pinion is 11 and ring is 39 teeth, which gives you 3.545. They also come from the factory, with matching numbers on them, so they are a set.



Scott
525

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Garfield Wright
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 294081 posted 01/14/06 07:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Very good educational read. There aren't too many awd Expo's in FL.

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