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Yea not a VR4

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
but still need help, another set of eyes, suggestions, dumb looks. It made OK numbers on a low reading dyno but should be about 35% to 40% more. Car left on 10psi but never really came on in the 1/8 mile and only ran like a 7.60's. Car should be a monster but is not even keeping up with OK fast street cars around here. I've thrown every idea I can think off at him and he's either already checked it or comes back as OK.

This is the car.....click me


It made it here and is now owned by a buddy of mine. He's verified the wastegate isn't leaking, bov isn't leaking, intake manifold leaks are all fixed, head is all pressure checked, harmonic balancer is good not clocked on the rubber, cams are lined up but he did say the exhaust is retarded 5 degrees, can't find what the problem is. It sounds damn good but just never really comes on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


He has multiple people all offering up there cams as a possible solution and has a HX-35 to throw on it. Any ideas let me know.

Current list of mods
Shortblock:
o AMS-DSM 2.0 6 Bolt Short Block: Hot tanked, bored / honed
o Ross 8.3 Pistons
o Manley Turbo Tuff Rods
o Polished Crank
o AMS Race Balance Shaft Eliminator Upgrade
o ARP Rod Bolts
o ARP Main Bolts
o O-ringed block (Copper o-rings)
o AMS Oil Cooler

Head:
o Edgar Built Head ported and polished
o FP 4R Cams
o FP DSM Beehive Spring and retainer set
o New Lifters
o Mitsu 1mm over Intake Valves
o Supertech 1mm over Inconel exhaust valves
o Mitsu 6.6mm Exhaust Valve Guide and Intake
o Cometic 3 Layer Head Gasket
o Magnus 1G 6-bolt L19 Race Head Studs
o Greddy Kevlar Timing Belt
o Adjustable Cam gears

Forced / Air Induction:
o Comp 6765 Triple Ceramic BB Turbo With Extended Tip Billet Compressor Wheel (T4 Twin Scroll .84 Turbine Housing)
o Custom Stainless steel Tubular long Tube Header (T4 Twin Scroll)
o Tial 46mm Wastegate
o 3" and 2.5 Powercoated intercooler piping
o Spearco Intercooler 10 x 25 x 3.5 1100cfm
o Greddy Profec B
o 75 mm throttle body
o Custom Aluminum Intake Manifold
o Single Fogger NOS System

Fuel:
o Aeromotive 1000 Fuel Pump
o SX Regulator and Filter
o -10AN Braided going IN
o -8AN Braided return
o 1000cc Injector Dynamics (Primary injectors)
o Stock 450 secondary injectors (Just for looks now)
o Billet Fuel rails
o 8 gallon Fuel cell

Ignition:
o Autronic SM4 fuel management
o M&W Pro 12 Ignition
o Honda 600cbr coils
o BPR-8ES NGK

Exhaust:
o 3" Exhaust Stainless Steel w/ Apex N-1 muffler

Drivetrain:
o Custom Spec B&M Tranny
o 4 Spider Gear Diff
o Billet Shift Forks
o Double Sychro 2nd gear
o Custom 3rd and 4th gear Hub and Sleeve
o Galant 1st gear
o B&M Shifter
o Quarter Master Twin Disk Clutch

Suspension / Handling / Grip:
o 16 inch Rota Slipstream 11.7 pounds a piece
o Toyo RA-1 225/50 tires
o Eibach Springs
o 6 Point Chromoly Roll Cage
o Tokico Shocks

Gauges:
o Full line of Defi guages
o Innovate MTX Wideband

Misc:
o Sparco Steering wheel
o Corbeau LG1 Driver and Passenger Seat
o 5 Point Cam Loc Harness
o Optima Yellow Top Battery
o Custom Carbon Fiber Hood

Car is fully tuned on 93 pump gas and put down over 400whp and with a conservative race tune put down 600whp.
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
... yea, something is borked, should make better numbers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif





What's the iat?

Can you ditch that hinky~daurus intake pipe with that asinine entry angle?


run a full width filter at the base of the windshield feeding into a rectangular funnel to gather the air into a tapered pipe headed down from the windshield/cowl area. Bust a long gentle 90 and run a tapered convergent duct over the tranny/under the upper intake pipe duct and then straight into the compressor wheel.



high pressure intake air at the base of the windshield. gaining pressure at speed

getting thr intake out of the engine compartment and the distance from the hot tarmac will also lower the intake temp a wholeshitton.

... that'd do all kinds of good things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif




[edit]every 10*f off the iat is 1%

... sh*t adds up and then some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Last edited:

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Well Jon when it was owned by like 3 guys ago it made the same power with a much smaller TO4R and two sets of injectors 550 and 650's now has the high impedance 1000's and with the fuel pressure up can go as much as 1600 on flow. As it sits its at 70% duty on the 1000's at base fuel pressure. Before the car had a MSD ignition which was causing problems and now is all cleared up.

Yea I'm not much of a fan of the filter or intake and already told him the 2.5 hot side pipe needs to go. Actually the intercooler is a bottle neck.... the turbo is like 90 lbs a minute which I'm sure is probably around 1500 or more cfm. I personally think the car needs a big water to air set-up.


I'll ask him the next time he calls or comes by exactly what the iat's but I did ask already and he said they were good.



He just recently got the car running and has had alot of car troubles getting this going and also brokering the deal on the twin engine car I posted that was on craigslist. Yes he ended up with the red dsm out of the frozen north as well but the last owner has hacked it absolutely to death, It may never make it back to what it was... So he's got two monster DSM's as well as a supercharged Mustang he drives daily. But guy isn't some rich spoiled kid with dads money, he works a 40 hour week then wrenches and paints cars on the side to pay for his car hobby. He's married and a kid on the way so 90% of the hobby is coming to a halt. Actually he's painting mine so I try my best to take care of him. Its just got us all baffled, Like you said sh*t adds up. Intake, water to air as well as all 3 inch pipes might solve everything but alot of this is a mystery. If the car was in modified magazine someone please check to see if you have it. We would love to know what cams, turbo etc was on the car with the 10 sec 140 pass. Could be the cams were swapped out and these are not built to spin 12K like the old ones and its just the wrong combo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif The new ignition, injectors as well as the new comp turbo he's responsible for but the parts in between the above link and now are all hear say and question marks.
 

ktmrider

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,128
Location
Tempe, AZ
I'm with Jon on the IAT's and intake location.

In addition what is the header pipe diameter? 2.0L may just not have enough exhaust velocity to spin the turbo up.
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
I hate it when built sh*t wont run out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


Quote:

exhaust is retarded 5 degrees



I'd look into that



In fact, might not be a bad idea to pull the valve cover and spec the cams out.

Don;t know what fp4r's spec out at for lift, but it's be interesting how far her legs are spread at "o five oh" of lifty

(dont know what dat is n metric, you do the math /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fawkd.gif )



I could write a fawkin book on what I learned about head/casting/valve stem installed height and the resulting lift/duration variations during this winters cam~a~thon, but suffice it to say I will check and dial in each and every set-up I build from here on out. The exact same damn cams gave some suprising (and occaisionally significant) variations when swapped into different heads!


verify what you have, __installed__ on THIS motor!




... she could probably use more cam, that's for sure!



I'd also double triple verify tdc whilst you;re in there. Do it >yourself
 
Last edited:

toybreaker

iconoclast
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,581
Be interesting to see what the exhaust back pressure is as well

... may have a collapsed flex section or some sh*t like that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



Curious about what pistons are in it

Yer build link has 'em at 9:1, and you list them at 8.3

Might be "missing" a wholeshitton of bmep there.

This also leads to the question of whether the timing/maps (at multiple load points) been checked and rechecked and verified








... heh, just saw this ...

Quote:


Galant 1st gear



... BOOM baby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif



fawk it, gotta go to work, you know what you gotta do

... check everything yerself





... hope he realises how much work you're going to have to do to sort this





















Hell by the time you're through, you should have enough credit built up with him to paints your car a faster color /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fawkd.gif
 
Last edited:

bazeng

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
2,520
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Wrong cams in the motor?

I've seen a VR4 with EVO 7 cams. Ran but made 50HP less than with correct cams. They initially had the intake/exhaust swapped over.

Who tunes the thing? Do some logging on the SM4. If you are not aware, the Autronic ECU's are one of the best. But the tuner needs to know the software extremely well to use it. It is not very user friendly. Kinda like Linux is to Mac.
 

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Ok sent a email to him trying to get the logs. When the last owner got the car it had a spun rod so that was fixed but somewhere along the way alot of things have been changed and we're just trying to sort the stuff out a little at a time. Buying built cars not running always leads to weirdo problems but I'm sure it will sort out eventually.


Paul no fliudamper, somewhere along the way the car has had one of those cheap aluminum ones put on but soon enough will be pulled off.
 

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Well he said the IAT's were always below 100....puzzled still. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 

raptorWagon

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
2,828
Location
Oak Harbor, WA
Quote:
Galant 1st gear



Hope the previous owners had a stock pile of these for every time they launched it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
burn-baby-burn.jpg
 

Brianawd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
How much was the head ported. If the person that ported the head has the idea bigger is better you could end up with a head that has really bad exhaust volocity.
 

curtis

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Well its kind of been put on hold. I shortened the header to his dimensions but the comp housing barely hits the up down shift linkage lever arm. Problem with building parts without having the car 20 feet away. He's actually going to break out the dial indicators and solid lifters and make sure the cams are dialed in but work has him on hold until this heat wave is over.

As for the head ports... never seen them. But it is a 2G head so hopefully not gone crazy with.
 
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