Tire Chains/Cables

[DailyDSM]

I know, a Californian talking about snow. We've had a few good storms this season and for the first time, I tried bringing the Galant instead of an SUV and the M+S tires just weren't cutting it. For those who have never driven in the Sierras, the snow it is a heavy, wet, and icey. Pair that with shear drop offs on windy roads and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I know many of you have a seperate set of wheels/snow tires for the winter season but I don't go to the mountains enough to justify storage of another set of wheels. I also know that snow chains, even on stock wheels and tires, will not clear the lower spring perch on the shocks in the front. It looks like tire cables would clear but I am not positive. This won't be much of a problem in the future as I have a set of Hotbits sitting in storage but it looks like I'll need cables for now. In the owners manual it says to put chains on the front (makes sense) and not to put chains on the rear. Now, does anyone know why you can't/shouldn't put chains on the rear if you have two sets of chains or is the manual just detering owners with one set from putting them in the rear instead of the front? Can anyone recommend a particular brand of snow cables? Any other advice would be appreciated.

 

[turbowop]

I've driven in the Sierras. I don't see your conditions being any worse than here in the PNW, and I've never needed chains on the gvr4. Get some good studless snows and rally on.

 

[CarRacer]

I use studless snows and don't lack traction at all. I'm using the stock rearend as well so it's only two wheels actually doing anything and my car rips around here quite nicely.

 

[toybreaker]

Combine southern califonia dessert style heat with a decent length commute, and snows will die a horrible death, quick like, even in the "winter". (why, I hear it got all the way down to 60*f out there the other day in 'diego /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

I *think* the reason they call for chains on the front only has to do with the characteristics of our driveline. Chains will increase the rolling diameter of whichever wheel pair they are mounted to. This will require the other wheel set to try and keep up. On low traction surfaces with a good viscous coupler, that *may* mean uncontraollable understeer/oversteer from hell if you only chain one wheel set....(I dunno, I never tried it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif )...

It sure would beat the hell out of the center diff/viscous coupler in anything except really slippery conditions.

Tim,

I know you don't want to have change out wheels when you're headed up to the hills, but traction in wet snow is 90% tire.

We get a bit of snow up here on the ranch compared to the front range foothills, and so I face the same dilema in the fall and spring. If I run a snow, it'll flat dissappear under the dry part of the commute, and if I run an allseason, I'll get stuck miles from the house, (above timberline, that's no fun!

I run the michelin hydroedge on my cars and they have always impressed me.

The tread pattern looks like an old school f1 rain tire

Good dry road characteristics, and excellent wear characteristics if you rotate them every now and then (treadwear (800!)

Flat awesome in the rain, and their ability to maintain directional control when running in wet/slushy snow (like you'll see in the Sierra's) is better than many dedicated snows.

They also throw a nice roostertail when you spin 'em up in deep snow, and that keeps people off your ass. (push in clutch, throw some revs at it, pop the clutch back out, they'll back right the fawk off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif )

I leave them on my car year round, and they cover any conditions I run into.

 

[DailyDSM]

Thanks John.
I was going to call and ask you about those All Season Michelins. I know you were talking about them awhile back and saying they were better than many of the non studded snow tires you had come across. In fairness, my current All Seasons (Kumho Ecsta ASX) only have about 25% tread left and don't have a very good snow rating to begin with. Looks like the Hydroedge will be my next tires and with my 100 mile commute, the tread rating is spectacular. That being said, regardless of the tires, CHP still requires you to have chains/cables under heavy conditions (and they do check) so I would like to pick up a set or two if anyone can make a recommendation.

 

[turbowop]

WSP requires us to carry chains between November 1st and April 1st as well, regardless of whether or not the car is AWD. I don't and have never been hassled for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[464/2K]

We have had a couple complaints about the hydroedges. People here run winter tires year around. Our summers are pretty damn hot and they wear just like any other tire(just faster due to being soft). We have had alot of people love The contiextremeComtact. I'm don't know what size you will be running but sizes are limited. If you have any more questions pm
me I can get you better pics of cretin tires you may want.

 

[curtis]

Quoting turbowop:
WSP requires us to carry chains between November 1st and April 1st as well, regardless of whether or not the car is AWD. I don't and have never been hassled for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



Video of awd burnout with chains or BAN>>>>>> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[DailyDSM]

Quoting turbowop:
WSP requires us to carry chains between November 1st and April 1st as well, regardless of whether or not the car is AWD. I don't and have never been hassled for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



CHP/CalTrans is less trusting. Every time I go up during a storm, they have checkpoints setup and require you to show them you have chains with you and usually have a bunch of CalTrans workers waiting to help put them on if needed.

 

[turbowop]

Although it's required here, the signs that say "chains required" also have small print at the bottom that say "except all wheel drive vehicles", so I think they let it slide due to being a bit misleading.

 

[Olson]

Quote:
Although it's required here, the signs that say "chains required" also have small print at the bottom that say "except all wheel drive vehicles", so I think they let it slide due to being a bit misleading.


Truth, just jad a buddy run up to Tahoe the other day in the Vr4 and didnt have any problems with the CHP besides all there weird looks he got from them when he told them it is an AWD car

 

[toybreaker]

Quoting 464/2K:
We have had a couple complaints about the hydroedges.



Like what, exactly?

Checking Tire Racks feedback of the michelin hydroedge shows it as number one in the category.

On topic,

Tim, check out this alternative to traditional chains out.

May work for your particular situation.

 

[raptorWagon]

Quoting turbowop:
Although it's required here, the signs that say "chains required" also have small print at the bottom that say "except all wheel drive vehicles", so I think they let it slide due to being a bit misleading.



From the WSDOT FAQ
Quote:
I have a four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicle. Do I have to install chains when signs indicate that chains are required?
As long as your vehicle is equipped with traction tires, chain installation is generally not required on four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles. Under extreme weather conditions, the Washington State Patrol (WSP) can mandate that all vehicles chain up, including four-wheel/all-wheel drive vehicles. WSDOT posts signs to keep motorists informed of chain requirements.



If it ever reached "Extreme Conditions" I doubt I would be driving anyway.

 

[toybreaker]

It's that whole "California" thing.

I got caught in a pretty decent snow last year in the Christmas storm on the grapevine towing a Galant out of L.A.

After a coupe of mooks wrecked at the top of el cajon and backed things up, the chp made us exit half way up for an "inspection"

They put the k-bosh on anyone that didn't have snows, and that was that.

I had snow tires on my 4x4 truck, (with Colorado tags) so they graciously "let" me procceed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif

It was tough sledding getting back up to speed. Spun all four up the on ramp, and the chipper standing down at the bottom of the ramp directing traffic probably got an earfull on my way by.

California has some really retarded ideas on some things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif



Out here in Colorado, they have a "chains or adequate snow tires" law.

It's an equipment violation for a normal motorist, and a $500 ticket for the truckers/commercial vehicles.

It's rarely enforced/tickets written unless you have an accident as a normal motorist, but the CDOT guys like to write it on commercial vehicles any chance they get.

It's selective enforcement at it's finest

Quoting raptorreed:
If it ever reached "Extreme Conditions" I doubt I would be driving anyway.



I live in the back country, so I don't really have a choice sometimes.

On I-70 it's amusing to see all the chuckleheads trundling along in the fast lane, and the mooks in suv's passing them on the right. The chuckleheads generally auger into the snow banks straight in, and the mooks end up on their roofs.

I usually just take the back roads.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting raptorreed:


If it ever reached "Extreme Conditions" I doubt I would be driving anyway.



That's when it's the most fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[raptorWagon]

^This is coming from the guy that won't drive through the pass in snowy conditions.

 

[464/2K]

Like not good wet dead stop traction, they wear quickly, noisy on the highway.

Just because "tire rack" rates a tire "best in class" doesn't mean it is.

I see this sh*t daily. But you probably know about tires then me, as you know how they are molded,shaped,engineered,they type of rubber that's used,the molds, the company that makes the molds....ect.

If had experince with the said tires, a "review" shouldn't mean anything to you.

And yes we have had alot of people say how wonderful these are but what do I know I'm just a tech and see what goes on with specific tires.


Quoting toybreaker:
Quoting 464/2K:
We have had a couple complaints about the hydroedges.



Like what, exactly?

Checking Tire Racks feedback of the michelin hydroedge shows it as number one in the category.

On topic,

Tim, check out this alternative to traditional chains out.

May work for your particular situation.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting raptorreed:
^This is coming from the guy that won't drive through the pass in snowy conditions.



What are you talking about? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif I drive 503 in the snow every chance I get.

 

[DailyDSM]

This is what I was dealing with a few weeks ago during the storm that flooded Long Beach. These were taken about a mile up the road from the chain checkpoint where I came across two cars that had hit each other coming down the mountain about 50 yards ahead of me. I had pulled over to the side of the road to check on them and help them move their cars to the turn out. In the mean time, the Mustang spun out right behind my car trying to go up the mountain and an Explorer hit a snow bank and busted his radiator. This all happend in a 2 minute span. The SUV in ditch (no chains) got there while trying to pass the two cars that hit each other and the other SUV (has chains) almost slid down the hill into my Galant while I was helping someone else. The whole ordeal took about 2 hours and 3 tow trucks to clear up and I was stuck right in the middle of 3 accidents. As soon as it was clear, I headed back down the mountain as I wasn't comfortable with the limited grip I was getting with my Kumhos with limited tread left.

Pics

 

[toybreaker]

Ricky, Im not going to get in a pissing contest with you.

There's a few of us in the business on this board.

Most of us take pride in what we do, and don't like to be wrong, ...ever... even a little.

People listen to what we say, and base their decisions on what to buy from that information.

It is our responsibilty to ensure that information is as factually accurate as possible.

Our customers trust us with their lives (and checkbooks) and we strive to be worthy of that trust.

When you posted you were having issues with them on Friday, I made a few calls to my guys in the tire warehouses here locally. There's been exactly none returned as defective in the last 18 months (as far back as their records went.)

I sell the hell out of these tires and have never had anyone give anything except positive feedback. I do customer call backs on a regular basis to keep in touch with my customer base, so I get feedback after the sale that many tire shops don't.

I also see the cars when they come in for service and spot check the tread wear. They always look better than any other skins we sell.

To quantify this, I just looked at my sales last year. Sold 64 sets. The year before over a hundred, the year before that well over a hundred. (etc). Thats over a thousand tires I have personally sold in just the last three years... (combine that with what my buddies at other shops sell, and that's a lot of tires!)

never had a warranty claim.

I also asked my buddies in the biz in other states, (from Texas to Alaska) and they report that everybody they sold them to is happy and would buy them again. (people do bitch about the price...)

I sell the hell out of these tires and have never had anyone give anything except positive feedback.

Let me repeat this so you understand my position

I do customer call backs on a regular basis to keep in touch with the customer base, so I get feedback after the sale that many tire shops don't.

My post wasn't meant as critisism.

I don't like to be wrong, especially on something as important as tires.

If you know something the rest of us that are in the business don't, please share your information with the rest of the class.

Edit;

Quoting DailyDSM:

In these wet/sloppy snow like ^^this^^, nothing short of a dedicated snow beats the hydroedge.

End of report. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif