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(sigh) it's not supposed to work this way...

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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4,638
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Phoenix, AZ
464 is my spares package. It's supposed to give up parts to keep the race car running. No such luck, it seems. First it was the TPS, then it was the tcase, then it was the right front hub. Tonight, it looks like the turbo. (sigh)

I've caught it acting up before. Cold starts, before it's up to temp, having to put a couple pounds through it before I really wanted to, I'd get an audible reminder of my folly, but today was something different. My route to the highway is carefully planned to take me about 10 minutes of stop-n-go before I need anything from the snail.

MBC is set to 12psi. She's never had any trouble with that. This morning, she idled rough as shit (no FIAV/ISC) and only gave me 5psi. Beyond that, she just made noise; an engine clearly making more noise than power, and the faint sound of detonation - like handfuls of tiny pebbles being thrown at the car anytime I asked for more than 15% throttle or so. By the time I got to the office, I was down to 3psi.

For the drive home, I got no boost at all. The AutoMeter jumped to 0 and held, while the engine just made noise. 0-60 in 30. She'd hold her own just fine at 75mph, temps where they should be, everything right in the world, but give her a little more gas, and there was that faint tick/ping.

Disgusted, I went out for a couple beers in the Juke. Pulled the intake and things look okay on the compressor side. No in/out, ever-so-slight side to side, no up/down play. There *might* be contact on the inlet, but it's hard to tell. I'll uplaod pics in the morning. WG linkage is snug and clipped. (First thing I checked.)

Warm compression test came in 150-150-130-150, with a capful of oil on #2 bringing it right up to 150 as well.

Chassis has over 192k on her and been totaled TWICE, so I'm not gonna fault the old girl, but damn, ya know? This isnt the way this is supposed to work. Tomorrow I pull the turbo and check the hot side, barring any glaring omissions in my troubleshooting pointed out overnight.

Just wanted to vent. Overall, I've found these cars to be very forgiving. Nothing I cant handle. A bad day under the hood beats a good day at the office.
 

DynastyLCD

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May 12, 2006
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761
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Harwinton, CT
still on a MAF, Brian?

almost sounds like a boost leak the way you describe it.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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Phoenix, AZ
Yeah, but it would have to be one hell of a leak, don't you think? It does fall flat on its face when it would normally be pressurized, but the metal-on-metal noise?

I guess I'll break down and do a boost leak test. Hopefully I can find the pieces locally on short notice. It would be stupid to make the piece and then switch both cars to speed density.

Here's a picture of the inducer. Does that look like contact to you?

 

grocery_getter

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Jun 20, 2004
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Kent - industrial suburbs of Seattle, WA
Maybe you lost your hotside wheel
 

DR1665

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That's what I'm suspecting, Andre.

Finally broke down and made a boost leak tester. Got it all sealed up, hooked up a friggin' bicycle pump, and began pumping away. The only air I could hear anywhere was air going into the system. Gauge on the pump would read 40psi at the bottom of the stroke, back to 0 almost immediately. Nada. Cranked away on that pump for 15 minutes straight - more than enough time to "inflate" the system. No dice. Waste of time and $8 imo.

14b flows 450cfm at 21psi. I'm set to 12. If the system had a 12psi leak, I think I'd hear it. I've never thought of boost leak tests as being anything more than fine tuning the system for maximum efficiency.

In any case, tomorrow the turbo comes off. Both my Galants go speed density this year.
 

I have found that a bicycle pump isn't up to snuff, even on the smallest of leaks. try to use a compressor, or atleast a pressurized tank to inflate the system. It'll build pressure fast, giving you time to listen for the bleed off.
 

gramkrakr89

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Jan 25, 2010
Messages
308
Location
Cincinnati, OH
I thought the point of a boost leak test was to find leaks w/ soapy water spray, not to see if the intake will hold pressure... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 

Oh, and if it turns out that you did lose the hotside,Please PM me. I'll want to discuss some specifics.
 

H05TYL

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Jun 9, 2007
Messages
752
Location
Wgtn, NZ
Had very similar symptoms when my 14b failed many years ago, turned out the exhaust housing was severly cracked in several places (including a chunk missing from beside the wastegate hole pretty much doubling it's size), a crack in the centre housing resulting in the turbine wheel contacting (and chewing up) the oil seal cover. Oh, and several sizeable cracks in the exhaust manifold.
 

IncorpoRatedX

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May 28, 2003
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5,593
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Arizona
friend had the exhaust wheel sheer off and lodge in the down pipe once.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
Messages
4,638
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Phoenix, AZ
Not a boost leak.



Yanked the turbo. When the manifold came off, there was that ring-a-ma-jig sitting in the collector. That's a good way to cause a lack of power and prevent turbo spoolup, yeah? Very similar to an inlet restrictor on the cold side.

Here's some more pictures.

As soon as I took the O2 housing off, I looked to see if I still had a turbine. Seeing it was still there, I tried giving it a spin. At first, it bound up against the wall, but within a couple spins, it was turning freely. Needless to say, this unit is not going to be reinstalled, so yet another piece of the race car is getting installed on the parts car. (Just means I need to order up an Evo III 16G for the race car, though, right?)











Looks like turbo could do with a rebuild (will be getting replaced in coming days), but the manifold needs to go too. Nothing we can't handle.
 

H05TYL

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Jun 9, 2007
Messages
752
Location
Wgtn, NZ
Yup, that'd do it. Doesn't look as bad as mine though - dug up some old pics for comparison.

TurbineWheel.jpg


TurbineHousingCrack.jpg


TurbineHousing.jpg


ManiUnderside.jpg


ManifoldCracks.jpg


Each of those 3 cracks in the manifold was big enough to see daylight through, ditto the one in the side of the turbine housing.
 

KiNgMaRtY

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Apr 8, 2008
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804
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Corona, CA
I am glad to see that you found your problem in the end.
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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Phoenix, AZ
Quoting KiNgMaRtY:
I am glad to see that you found your problem in the end.


Thanks, man.

@moneypit - I'll probably just scoop up a dead one and rebuild it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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Phoenix, AZ
Alright, riddle me this, gentlemen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Turbo installation went off without a hitch. Took the good 14b off the rally car motor, swapped it right over to the daily driver - manifold, O2 housing, and all. (Re-used the original O2, though.) Topped off the coolant. Topped off the oil. Cracked a cold, celebratory beer, turned the key. OMFG. IT SOUNDS LIKE I'VE SPUN EVERY BEARING IN THE ENGINE. WTF.

No way I'm that cursed. I've got atomized fuel floating out the tail pipe for ten minutes after a quick attempt at firing the engine. Pull a plug and get the same from #4 and #3. First thought was that I mixed up my wires when I did the compression test last week. Figure my old plug wires are shot, as two of them were swollen from oil contact and had bulges on them. Fine. New plugs and wires it is.

New plugs, NGK BPR6EYs or whatever (V-power, not the standards.) All gapped .28-.31. Double checked my coil pack and have 4-1-2-3, per Chiltons.

Thoughts? Seriously. WTF. No way I'm this unlucky. No way a turbo swap resulted in serious bearing damage, but I'll be damned if doesn't sound like my engine is about to assplode. This isn't the way it's supposed to work. Appreciate any feedback.

Fuel "fog" wafting from tailpipe after non-run.


Fuel "fog" wafting from park plug hole.
 

Wow, your luck is almost as good as mine! No idea on your issue though, hope it's nothing too bad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
 

speedyvr4

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Jan 1, 2006
Messages
1,245
Location
miami, fl
how bout a vid of the sound? have you grabbed a stethescope and pinpointed the sound? sorry to hear your woes, I got my dsm with about 150 miles on a brand new rebuild including heads, pushing coolant under boost, go figure. good luck with it? keep us posted
 

DR1665

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Oct 19, 2005
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4,638
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Phoenix, AZ
I might try to get a video tomorrow. If you can imagine what it would sound like if you had a wrench or something stuck between the timing belt and inner side member, that's pretty much what it sounds like. Not okay.
 

Not that it helps the current predicament Brian, but the reason that stupid exhaust ring failed in the first place is because the manifold has been ported. The lip that would overlap that ring has been cut out. With the ring basically being under full blown assault from the high temps, and with all that temp blasting at the upper edge (which is normally covered), it was only a matter of time.
 
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