Saturn alternator swap/relocation.

[diambo4life]

Anyone here done this in our chassis? I am wondering how you offset the alternator and which ribs you used, whether you swapped out the Saturn pulley or not, etc? I just did mine but want to make sure my configuration is optimal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[raptorWagon]

It has been done a few times over the years, but not many do it. Stock typically lasts fine for most vr4 owners. All that is involved in the swap would be relatively the same as in a 1g DSM.

see if anything from this thread helps you Saturn Alternator swap

next time do some searching.

 

[diambo4life]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


For the record, the Jay kit works ok but the spacer for offsetting the alternator was rather useless to me. It put the alternator either too close to the frame (to the point you could not even slide the belt through) or too far to the rear of the engine that there was a significant misalignment of the pulleys. I had to use some washers to align it somewhere between. It works ok for now but not sure whether it will be perfect at 9,000rpm. I am seeing great voltage (14.5V) after redoing everything related to charging. Not bad and this is with the 96A unit.

 

[strokin4dr]

I'm having some alternator issues with my white car lately. 3 mitsu alternators in the last year. Yeah, yeah, cheap parts store remans...
I am curious of what steps you have taken with your charging system besides the GM alternator.
I am considering moving my battery back up front and running new wiring from the battery to the alternator. Car runs great all the time until I start seeing voltage dropping off when the alt decides to die. I have heat shield and wraps in place. The wiring though is 27 years old and pretty baked on the white car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[diambo4life]

Ryan, I simply got tired of replacing my alternator every year and I really do not drive my VR4 that much. It has a little over 110000 miles. Put maybe 12000 miles on it in 5 years! The car has always had crap voltage. When I bought it from my buddy years ago, it already had the battery in the trunk. I was not happy with it but at least the voltage would stay at 13.0-13.1V uptop. Not sure what happened last year, but I would regularly see voltage in the 12's...and it would even go into the 11's. Replaced the Autozone alternator and the new junk did the same thing. Enough. When I went to warranty the junk alternator, they could not order me another POS reman so I got my money back, plus more (prices jumped up quite a bit) and went and bought a regular 96 Saturn DOHC alternator from O'reillys. It was like $125'ish after tax. You need to get the one with the external fan. For some reason, the other internal fan version has a different harness which is harder to source. I picked up the Saturn Jay Racing kit (with the steel bracket) rather pricy for what it is at $150 but no better options. Beautiful anodized pieces. Engine was out of the car so I got to mount the alternator to see what it would look like and how much space I was working with. The relocation kit does not work if you have AC as it uses the same mounting holes. If you have seen any photos of this on a 1G, it is similar. I took some pix but they are not uploaded. I relocated my battery to the engine bay and mounted it onto the subframe by the transmission. I did something similar in my old 1G. I made some sort of bracket that mounted it to prevent any movement. The Saturn alternator harness I had had 4 wires. I used the bigger red signal wire and spliced it to the fuel pump trigger located all the way back into the trunk. I figured the further away the signal was, the better the voltage would be. I then wired the small wire on the factory harness (alternator) to the "L" wire on the Saturn alternator. That's it. I ran a 4AWG wire from the alternator B+ terminal directly to the positive of the battery (or junction block, preferably fused) if you have one where your starter is. I then ran a 4AWG negative from the alternator pivoting bolt to the negative terminal of the battery. A good idea to grind the anodizing coating off the alternator mounting bracket. On the battery, I ran a 4AWG from the negative ground terminal to the firewall. I ran another 4AWG wire from the battery to the transmission mounting bolt. I turned the car on and was shocked to see almost 15V at 900rpm idle. Turning the lights on and turning the fan on full blast had almost 0 effect on the volatge. The one thing that would drop the voltage a little was my high output Spal fan since it lowers the rpm a tad bit. Overall, very excited. I need more field testing. FYI, I do have a JMS boost a pump that runs my dual AEM pumps at 15'ish volts. System works great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[strokin4dr]

Thanks for the rundown. Keep us posted on how it works out for you with more testing.
I have AC, but may end up trying something similar.

 

[strokin4dr]

Update:
I read up a lot over the weekend about this swap and decided to go for it. Like you, I returned my parts store alternator and ended up with about $50 on the plus side. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
I purchased a '94 Camaro alternator instead of a Saturn unit for a few reasons:
-Both have the same mounting points, etc.
-105 amp vs 96 amp
-Smooth casing without ribs on the bottom, so no grinding needed on the alternator itself
-Stupid cheap with online coupon and in store pickup. Ended up paying $77 after I returned a $5 junkyard core!

The swap was pretty straight forward, but I took my time and tried to make it as clean an install as possible. I had the engine for my Mirage sitting on the stand so I did the mock up out of the car which was much easier than trying to get it right while in the car. The added benefit is now that car is ready for a GM alternator too!

Just took it for the first test drive and I'm mid 14 volts at idle and cruise. Dropped off to mid 13's during a pull.
Better than my old one could do, but I still have a few other upgrades to do. I am still using all the crusty factory wiring, haven't added a ground to the case, and just ran the "S" lead to the factory big wire on the plug. I plan to do one step at a time to see which area was my biggest issue.

Thanks for giving me the rundown on your experience with this. I had been on the fence with doing the swap for a while but wasn't sure I needed to. I tried to love the OEM alternators for years but they gave me no choice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[diambo4life]

Very nice. Probably try and keep it away from the DP heat as much as you can. Mine has been working great, I haven't actually made a pull to see how it is holding up. I do have a boost a pump so my voltage at the pumps will remain a steady 15V no matter what but I am very happy with the improvements. Should have done this years ago. I just want to make a pull to make sure the belt is not going to be thrown off at high rpm since I literally had to eyeball the alignment of the pulleys with washers.

 

[strokin4dr]

Good point. I was worried about heat in the stock location even with my OEM manifold shield in place, turbo blanket, and everything else wrapped with DEI. I ended up grabbing a firewall heat shield off a '10 lancer at the junkyard and made it fit nicely between the wastegate/dump tube and the alt. Should help a bit, but we shall see.

One other thing I did and forgot to mention is I replaced the Camaro alternator pulley with one from a Saturn Vue I found at the yard. Both measure 1.99" diameter, but the Vue pulley has one less rib and groove so it gives me a little more clearance from the framerail (and just plain looks better too). I also grabbed a slightly smaller pulley off some 90's Buick in case I needed more voltage at idle, but so far so good. All of the pulleys end up having the same offset when installed so there is no guessing game when it comes to aligning it. Everything just works! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[diambo4life]

I have heard the Kiggly pulley is a good upgrade as well. If I have issues with the voltage dropping off uptop from the alternaor being overspun, that will be the next upgrade. Been busy with a newborn so havent had a chance to go play with the VR4 and see how it works uptop. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[diambo4life]

On the top is a pull in Oct at wastegate boost. On the bottom is a pull from yesterday...at 30psi. Screen grab rom the same rpm spot. Notice the battery line on the graph (solid blue.) 12.6V v/s 14.4V. I lifted at 7,000rpm but the voltage was 14.4V across. No dips. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[bazeng]

This is a very good thing for fuel pump and ignition.

I'm definitely upgrading my alternator.

 

[diambo4life]

Just wanted to update this and say this is still working beautifully. The lowest voltage I see on a hot 90-100 degday with 40psi boost is 13.8V! Definitely a must do. I should have done this years ago! At the relocated position, my belt has never been tossed and everything seems to be working great.

 

[strokin4dr]

Good to hear.
Mine is in the stock position and while voltage has been much improved, I've had to re-tension the belt a couple times due to it squealing. I did not enlarge the lower holes in the front case to accommodate the GM sized mounting bolt, but instead used a spacer on one side in an attempt to make the belt alignment true. A very slight angle in the mounting of the alternator could be the issue I am fighting. Once the car is warm I never have any problems, but eventually after tightening the belt, the squealing has been coming back with a cold start.
My plan now is to either machine legit spacers to allow the stock mitsu lower bolt to take up all slack or just drill everything out to the size of the GM bolt. I will give an update once I have time to work on it again.
-Ryan

 

[gtluke]

I'm upset that I didn't do this mod 10 years ago.
I went through 12 mitsu rebuild alternators in the last 18ish years. Basically every single winter the stock one would sh*t out.
I"m on year 3 with the saturn with a WAY better charging voltage.
Nobody should be replacing a their alternator with another stock one. Just do the saturn swap. Mine is in the factory location and works fine.

 

[strokin4dr]

Good to hear, Luke. Did you drill out the front case and block to allow the larger GM thru-bolt at the bottom?

 

[slugsgomoo]

I have a stock one relocated due to packaging constraints... Until it dies I think I'll hold off. That said in 35k between my two cars I only had one failure, and I attribute that partially to no heat shield.

 

[gtluke]

Quoting strokin4dr:
Good to hear, Luke. Did you drill out the front case and block to allow the larger GM thru-bolt at the bottom?


no, the only thing I did was clearance the alternator and block so that it'll actually fit. Like 3 minutes with an angle grinder.
I'm using the factory bolts and tensioner. It looks sketchy because the angles are wrong, I was expecting it to loosen up over time but after a few years it's still totally fine.

 

[diambo4life]

Quoting strokin4dr:
Good to hear.
Mine is in the stock position and while voltage has been much improved, I've had to re-tension the belt a couple times due to it squealing. I did not enlarge the lower holes in the front case to accommodate the GM sized mounting bolt, but instead used a spacer on one side in an attempt to make the belt alignment true. A very slight angle in the mounting of the alternator could be the issue I am fighting. Once the car is warm I never have any problems, but eventually after tightening the belt, the squealing has been coming back with a cold start.
My plan now is to either machine legit spacers to allow the stock mitsu lower bolt to take up all slack or just drill everything out to the size of the GM bolt. I will give an update once I have time to work on it again.
-Ryan



Honestly, I was worried about the belt tension loosening up but since I installed it the first time, I have not touched it. I'm thinking the belt could be tensioned a little more to my liking but I guarantee you if I touch it, then I will start having issues. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif It doesn't squeal so it will stay like that. Seen 9000rpm multiple times.

 

[diambo4life]

Figure I update this since it has been SEVERAL YEARS. Ever since I installed the alternator on this car, I never touched it again. Was definitely an excellent thing to do. I plan to do the same thing to my new (to me) 2G. I no longer have the VR4 as from 2 months ago. Never had any voltage issues since.