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Running great save from some knock in 3rd. spark and knock threshold ?'s

EfiniX

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
647
Location
portland, or
Quoting Strokin4dr:
tl;dr = go LinearWB



Thanks. That's not to say that what I'm hearing isn't great advice as well. I found a few issues with my idle vs. global fuel settings. Some minor adjustments have me looking and running very good. Since the delta between the gauge and Link is predictable, the minor adjustments recommended here by GSTwithPSI have made an absolute world of difference.

Thanks to all. More to come as a switch over to LinearWB and continue to square this all away.
 

GSTwithPSI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,461
Location
SoCal
Unless Innovate is willing to provide a chart that correlates sensor output voltage to your gauge readings, I can't say whether or not your gauge is reading inaccurately. With ECMlink, you always know what the sensor output, and what AFR that directly correlates to. I can post up multiple logs from multiple cars that look identical to your LC-1 voltage and AFRs. That indicates to me that ECMlink is probably right...Either that, or everyone else's AFRs are jacked too, which I find highly unlikely.

In addition, I'm going to assume someone at ECMlink did the math on the chart of WB switch points. You should think of your switch point as a constant. Using the LC-1 switch point as an example: no matter what, at 2.44v ECMlink will read stoich. When ECMlink sees any voltage reading below 2.44 it will indicate lean, and anything above it will indicate rich. ECMlink only knows that 2.44v is stoich. So, if for some reason 2.44v is not stoich, your WB readings will be off of course. However, based on the WB readings in your log and other's I've seen, I find that's unlikely.

The difference in concentration between oxygen molecules in the exhaust gas and ambient air determines the voltage the sensor produces. This is why your sensor needs to be calibrated. The ambient air at my house in Maryland and the ambient air at your crib in Oregon are not created equal. If your sensor was miscalibrated, that could also cause a variation in your readings. But, again, based on your log I don't believe this is the case.

Here's the bottom line; there's only one way to verify your WB is reading correctly, and that's to check it against another known good WB. In absence of that, I'd trust what ECMlink says, and what other logs can verify. In addition, I feel like someone would have noticed by now if ECMlink were reading incorrectly.

IF you decide you want to tweak the sensor, you'll need to modify the switch point under the NBO2 sim tab. Just keep in mind, it will be a guess and check process. Tweaking it too far one way or the other could have some pretty harsh consequences. Maybe Innovate could verify what the switch point of the sensor is.



Cliff's Notes for TLDR:
1. ECMlink says the LC-1 WB switch point is 2.44v, which I believe is accurate (stoich)
2. Innovate says their gauge is correct, but none of us have numbers/info/data to say one way or another without just taking their word for it.
3. Multiple logs I've seen show numbers similar to yours, confirming either your WB is reading true, or multiple vehicles have the same issue.
4. Calibrate your sensor to avoid inaccurate readings.
5. If you want to modify your switch point do it under the NBO2 sim tab, but be cautious since screwing it up could cost you a motor.
6. The only true way to verify your WB is with another known good WB.
 

GSTwithPSI

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,461
Location
SoCal
Quoting EfiniX:
oh, and I've had a hell of a time finding that voltage setting in link. Just doesn't seem to be there, but the fact that you can display it leads me to believe I'm nuts?




Oh, and the raw WB value is right there in your screenshot. It's the one that says RawEGRTempInput(RawLC1WB)
 

EfiniX

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
647
Location
portland, or
*facepalm*

Of course it is, because I've got the WB pinned in on the EGR port. wow... just wow.

Anyway, it's not there anymore. I switched over to LinearWB. I had to bump the minimum voltage up to 0.20, but the WB reading in link is now tracking perfectly with the gauge reading. That along with the adjustments to idle on the VE table, and the adjustments to global fuel... The car seems quite happy. I'll keep logging over the next few days, but I'm in a good place right now. I'll write something up on this process tomorrow so that poor souls searching the same keywords as me can find their way. Heck, I might even knock up a video showing what I was seeing, what I did, and how I got to where I am now. I kept all my configurations and logs, so I can even revert back to the original configuration and show the process.

Thank you to all. I hope some process information is a sufficient thank you to the community for all of your help. No piece of advice didn't play a role in getting this sorted out!
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
FWIW, I change the WB sensor once a year. It's far overkill, but I've had them fail before. I get them for around 50 bucks and that way I know it's fresh and the readings are as accurate as can be.
 

prove_it

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,201
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
I have had a couple fully fail. Both times it was the same thing. Sensor read full lean and the ecm went full rich. Ran like crap wouldn't idle. Could not free air calibrate it.

At the dyno shop we ate the same bosch sensors about every two weeks. But then again the bosses cars were tuned all the time with C16, which is leaded.

Actually the last few I've had warranted out since I know the manager at O'reillys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

strokin4dr

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
2,770
Location
Savannah, GA
Quoting EfiniX:
*facepalm*

Of course it is, because I've got the WB pinned in on the EGR port. wow... just wow.

Anyway, it's not there anymore. I switched over to LinearWB. I had to bump the minimum voltage up to 0.20, but the WB reading in link is now tracking perfectly with the gauge reading. That along with the adjustments to idle on the VE table, and the adjustments to global fuel... The car seems quite happy. I'll keep logging over the next few days, but I'm in a good place right now. I'll write something up on this process tomorrow so that poor souls searching the same keywords as me can find their way. Heck, I might even knock up a video showing what I was seeing, what I did, and how I got to where I am now. I kept all my configurations and logs, so I can even revert back to the original configuration and show the process.

Thank you to all. I hope some process information is a sufficient thank you to the community for all of your help. No piece of advice didn't play a role in getting this sorted out!



Glad to see it worked out for you.

Every time I install a wideband in a mitsu it gets setup this way. No guess work here, since you input the values yourself.
 
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