Rebuild on a budget.

Basic assumptions:
Block is within spec. (verified by machine shop)
Desired power is 350 whp on B16g with water meth/big FMIC/ big Air to Water.
Crank is in good shape.
Stock pistons show some damage, one ring land busted, and rods are therefore questionable.

My head was supposedly rebuilt recently (Not true, shop ripped off the previous owner. All valve margins are below min spec, valve guides are double acceptable wear, face patterns are lousy) I am thinking about having all this installed by a machine shop:
click
Apparently some people on DSMtalk have had very good results with these, and I don't really have the budget for better. If someone has a reason these will not work for my application, please let me know.

Next, I have a line on a complete TopLine rebuild kit, which includes "OEM Grade" Pistons and rods for $250 (a friend is giving it to me at wholesale). Will these pistons and rods support the power I want to make or should I investigate a better option?

The current plan is to put this all together, and run wastegate pressure until the bigger fuel pump, cooling solution and tuning solution are installed, then turn up the boost.

My budget is roughly $1500-2000, but I have some other problems that must be addressed, as follows:

All suspension bushings accessible with the motor out: $60
Busted/Fried motor mounts: $100
Arp bottom end hardware: $100
ACL race main and rod bearings, std clearance: $100
Blown turbo: $300-400 for rebuild, forum turbo or b16g from: Godspeed Project
Shot out drivers window:$40
Other assorted DSM crap, fluids etc: $150
Machine work/block purchase: $60-$300

All this info should hopefully answer many questions. The answer I need is should I use the topline stuff for the power I want to make, has any one had experience with them etc. If you just slapped a set in and it blew up, don't bother posting. The specs on these motors are incredibly tight, and most of the little eyeballing tricks that work on other motors DO NOT work on these (most likely why people are always blowing things up.) I want info from people who had in spec bores, clearances etc, and had success or failure.

If you have a line on the parts I am looking for/ should get, link me please. Telling me I can find something at a certain price "somewhere on the net" is fairly valueless.
Thanks in advance!

 

[prove_it]

Add another 30 percent to that and you'll closer. I always plan around an extra 30 percent when doing an engine build due to unplanned expenses like bolts, brake clean, towels, random tools you don't have but need, and other random items. Things always come up and I try to plan for the unexpected.

 

[Lonewolf64]

Quoting 687OF2000:

Blown turbo: $300-400 for rebuild, forum turbo or b16g from: Godspeed Project




Don't buy that turbo. That is chinabay junk.

 

[broxma]

I think you can get better stuff for less. Take just the pistons for example.
You can probably pick up a set of Evo slugs on EvoM for under 100. Bore out the factory rods for the 22mm pins and be done with it. Less than 250.00 easy for all of that and generally the Evo pistons will come with lightly used rings. If you have to buy new rings, all bets are off. Better off spending the extra 200.00 and going with 1G specific forged pistons.

Rod and main bearings should cost less than 100.00 if sourced properly.
Why get new valves if they aren't any lighter or larger? They are going to have to be cut in, which will be the same as you doing some cleaning on the stock valves and having them cut in. Valves guides are less than 40.00 each side shipped for upgraded parts, lifters can be had for less than 70.00. Decent valves seals maybe 30.00. Individually I can source those parts cheaper and probably better.

You don't need ARP bolts for your mains. At that HP, probably not even for the rods.

The problem is while that sounds like you've covered alot of bases, you have missed a great deal of small parts, some you might not have mentioned as being completed already or otherwise. BSE, Rear and front crank seals, main seal seat, main seal cover, about 5 gaskets, head gasket, etc.
For 350WHP on a 16G you'll probably need meth to do reliably. Ditch the water-air IC idea. That is more than half your budget right there. Get a decent sized FMIC, and some larger pipes.

I think your budget is kind of restrictive to do a full restore the kind you wish to. If money is a serious object and you simply must stay at that level, ignore all the pretty stuff up front and focus only on getting a running car with the best parts you can buy. The problem with doing a full restore is it starts to run away from you. I have had no less than 13 packages dropped off for my rebuild in the last 3 weeks. The final and critical one containing my supertech intake valve guides being dropped off tomorrow. I am already over 2K and that is subtracting several things I have sold. Read my build log click for some info.

I think 350WHP with Meth and a FMIC is unlikely at 2K. I think a running car is totally possible and you might want to look at that as an initial goal.

/brox

 

[524of1000]

^+1. Not trying to be negitive or anything, just giving my experiance FWIW. I've been rebuilding 524 for a year and a half now and there's ALWAYS something new that comes up. It's 2 steps foreward and one step back over and over again. Always a tool you need or a gasket or a bolt or some other random part. It does get frustrating, but start with a good running motor and THEN look for the big power. Otherwise you'll have had the car in the garage for years and only drivin it 3 times /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
Good Luck with the build tho! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. The old valves all must be replaced due to insufficient margin. The valve guides are too worn to be reused. The ebay kit has:
Lifters:$70
Valves:$128 for stocker two piece valves, these are back cut one piece stainless.
Manganese Bronze guides: $100
That looks like a deal....but does anyone know if they are any good?

As far as the seals go, the topline kit I was talking about is a master rebuild kit, which includes all the seals including the viton valve seals, as well as OEM rings (and a new oil pump). I am also not counting tools in my budget (for the most part). I like the evo piston idea...but once the rods were bored I would want to have them shotpeened to harden them back up again, and that is once again more $, although to get pistons for $100 it might be worth it.

Yes, I forgot to include the MLS headgasket, be it Felpro, Mitsu or Cometic, $75-$90
I will avoid the turbo, I was not sure if it was Chinese or not.

Air to Water half my budjet? Frozen Boost seems to be very reasonable and has been run with success on this board, although I am not sure for how long.

Let me restate the question. The budget is to get the motor back together and in the car with a turbo on it, with internals capable of supporting 350 once I have the cooling I need. The cooling is not included in the budget, nor is the 350hp, as I would obviously need fuel upgrades and something to control it as well.

 

[Lonewolf64]

A bone stock head and block can easily handle 350whp. You've got nothing to worry about in that regard. Right now focus on getting it running and reliable, and then you can focus on power mods.

 

Thank you, that is what I was looking for. By stock block I assume you mean block and internals. I am trying to ascertain if these "Topline OEM Grade" components are in fact as good as the stock internals.

 

[broxma]

The Evo piston is only a good idea if you can verify the rings are usable. If not, you're looking at adding 160 or so ontop of the price, which pushes it into Forged territory. Given the definition of the word 'capable" I think what you want to do is 'possible'.

I have seen that water to air kit before and unfortunately, it leaves out many critical parts to get it working. It is kind of a barebones PC kit in essence. The custom pipes will add another 2-300 alone if you want them to look nice. The other issue with the Water to air idea is mounting it. Everything is custom, so everything custom costs money.

A stock Evo 8/9 IC can easily cool the power you are looking to make, can damn near be run through the factory pipe layout(I did it actually) and costs less than 100.00 on EvoM. In addition, since it does use the factory routing(Mostly), if not the pipes, you can get used aftermarket OEM replacement pipes and they will still work.

I don't know if you got into a few particulars but the build will need new injectors by estimate, which means chipped ECU. Again, Evo Injectors and a Keydiver chip should handle it but that's another 250.00 right there.

I think it's possible to make the car capable. It won't, but it would be able to within that budget.

/brox

 

I was noticing a lack of hoses...As far as the ecu and injectors I have them, I just need the pump to supply them. Can I run that evo intercooler with AC and without cutting the bumper? If so that would be awesome. I think I am going to go forged piston with new rings, and have my factory rods cryoed (I have a source), unless the block I am looking at tommarow is perfect (bare block $60!!), in which case I will set my block aside for later punch out and just throw my stuff back together with the oem kit to get back on the road.

 

[broxma]

The Evo IC fit fine behind my bumper beam and required no real work to get it to sit. You'd have to come up with some sort of mounting solution for it, but that really won't be that hard. Mine actually sat pretty well only attached to the IC pipes with nothing else holding it in. The only real issue with clearance is on the passenger side where the EVO outlet pipe fires down a bit, but I could still button up the bumper to the frame with no issue.

/brox