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New engine for 1951 --> build thread Updated 12/12

ApexHunter

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Apr 25, 2007
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I'm gonna be building an engine for 1951 in class this year, i thought it might be cool to do a build thread on it. I'm gonna be doing the majority of the machine work myself, with the exception of micro-polishing the crank and modding the 1g big rods for use with 2g pistons. I'm also going to be assembling the engine. I'll be doing this at Saddleback Community College in Mission Viejo, CA. They have a pretty sick engines program there, the machine shop has some really nice equipment and the instructor has a lot of experience in the field. I however, have no experience machining or assembling an engine so this should be an interesting journey. Taking this into consideration, i would appreciate any questions/comments/suggestions/constructive criticism seeing as how i haven't done this before and i know there are some people on here who have building engines or machining either for hobby or by trade. Even if you don't have this experience, i still want to hear from you. I hope this thread becomes useful for anyone planning on building an engine. I think the toughest part about making this a successful thread, besides being successful with the build itself, will be finding the time to keep it updated, as i'm working 2 jobs and taking 14 units.

The classes i'm taking pertaining to this subject are auto 104A and 204. 104A is "Automotive Engines". Basically, you build an engine, over the course of 2 semesters. Fall= block, spring = head. Auto 204, is "High Performance Engine Blueprinting". This class is not required however it will give me an opportunity to make this engine as close to perfect as i can, plus you get to use more equipment such as the Rottler F68A click and flowbench. 204 follows the same schedule as 104, with the fall focusing on the block and the spring on the head.

For these two classes alone i have 4 different books, plus the factory service manual that i need to read. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif It's a little intimidating because i've got shitty reading comprehension. I have to re read stuff a lot so it will be time consuming to read all this. Fortunately it is interesting stuff for the most part.







The engine is basically going to be an attempt at replicating the engine currently in 1951, built by previous owner. Basically a stock rebuild but with 2g piston/1g rod combo. Here is a rough overview:

6 bolt
Block bored 0.50mm over
Stock crank, but with a fresh micro-polish
2g pistons on 1g rods
ARP fasteners where applicable
BS delete
OEM bearings
Stock girdle setup
MLS headgasket

1g head
Stock cams
New 3g lifters
New oem springs/retainers/keepers
3 angle valve job
Stock (size) valves. Valve material still up in the air. Sodium filled exhaust valves are possible.
Manganese bronze valve guides.
New oem valve stem seals
ARP fasteners where applicable
Mild porting, probably limited to cleaning up any casting flaws on intake/exhaust ports. Although when spring comes around, i'll be able to use the flowbench, so i'm considering getting a couple extra heads to mess around with. I know porting to where you actually improve flow is not as easy as one might think so i'm just gonna be realistic for now and keep it limited to the port matching i already stated.

I gotta call it a night here, if i left anything out i'll edit tomorrow.
 
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ApexHunter

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Now comes the list of stuff i need. I'm sure i'll be adding to this as time goes on.


Heads, bare or complete, let me know what you got as long as it's in decent shape. The one i have is questionable due to some scoring on one of the surfaces that one of the cam journals rides in. Plus it'd be cool to have a couple extra so i can experiment a bit with porting and the flowbench.

Good condition oil pan.
 
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CarRacer

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In all honesty, assembling an engine isn't very hard. The one in my car is the first one I've done and it still runs. :p Keeping the parts clean, checking your measurements twice, and using a torque wrench are pretty much the important parts. I followed the tech manual on the engine. It lists out pretty much every measurement you'll need and every torque spec on the motor.

I had all of my machining done then did the assembly myself. If you plan on machining the block and head surfaces I wouldn't be worried about running a MLS. I'm not sure but is .050 over within spec for the bore? Someone else should chime in on that.

Good luck and I hope you find time to update this thread.
 

ApexHunter

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^Thanks man. I hope to update this thread at least once per week with my progress.

0.50mm over (0.020") is pretty common...i assume you thought i meant 0.050". IIRC 0.50mm is the "first level" of oversize bore for 4g63's.
 

ApexHunter

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Marysville, WA
So i just made this whole post and then Explorer crashed. Doh! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

A little bit slow at work here today so i thought i'd finish getting the thread up to speed with the classes. Class schedule = Engines class tuesday, 8-5. Thursday = blueprinting, 1-5. Just finished Week 2. It seems like keeping this thread updated will keep me in check with elapsed time vs. time remaining. I need to have the shortblock finished by mid december. It doesn't seem like it would be a problem, but one instructor and one machine shope divided by 25 students in engines and 18 in blueprinting = slow progress sometimes.

One of the goals of this thread is to go through everything, including lots of the details on processes you don't always here a lot about. For example, i've known for a while magnafluxing a block before starting the build is a good idea. Later i found out the purpose, to check for cracks. Later still i found out that because it is based on the concept of magnetism, that it does not work with aluminum blocks. Only last thursday though, did i found out how you do it. I was pretty stoked. Stuff like that i want to document in here because you hear about it happening but a lot of people don't really know much more than it is recommended and why. I realize that if one had the desire to know, that a google search will quickly provide answers. However i can be lazy and i like seeing more than reading. I'm gonna try and get lots of pics of all the different steps taken and hopefully some vids too.

So the first week of both classes was pretty much what you would expect- intros, safety, syllabus review, shop tour. 2nd week was a little better. Engines class we did a basic engine intro/overview :snore: and then started discussing various measuring tools such as calipers, micrometers, dial indicators, torque wrenches, and a 1/2 hour video from Waynes showing them build a 16 valve pushrod v8, either SBC or 302 ford. We also got to play around with a Profilometer a little. That thing is dope!!! Measures surface roughness. I hadn't seen or heard of one before.
My shop teacher apparently favors digital or click style torque wrenches, for good reason. 3rd place, dial-style, 4th place beam style. The digi's are sick but expensive (for a good one) as we all know. So basically a good click style was recommended, for it's ease of use and repeatability. The only drawback being that it is easy to go a little too far if you are not careful. Dial torque wrenches were a close 3rd but like beam style it requires you to watch the indicator needle. Beams can be accurate but can be difficult to get that accuracy and consistency. Also plagued by the problem "motion parallax" which happens when depending on your vantage point the needle can appear in a different position than where it really is. I'll be purchasing a snap on click style torque wrench hopefully pretty soon. As students we get a 50% discount, which i predict might make it close to the price of craftsman /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Blueprinting week 2- We went over some basic anti-idiot stuff: we were shown how to properly operate the pressure washer (they have a nice 'Hotsy' unit that can shoot water at two temps: ambient, or boiling. We also talked about how not to destroy the gloves on the media blasters, one glass bead and one baking soda. Then we discussed magnafluxing a bit. I'll be going into more detail on this later when i do it. Also, overview of core plug (aka freeze plug) R&R, oil galley plug R&R, and using a torch and parrafin wax to remove plugs, fasteners, whatever. We also discussed electrolytic corrosion a bit. This occurs on iron block, aluminum head engines. Basically electrolytic corrosion can be a real bitch. No torch and wax can get you out of that. Just patience and prayer. We also discussed measuring deck height a little bit, again just an overview. I'll go into more detail on lots of this stuff later. I'm sure some of this stuff is review for some or a lot of people, as this site seems to have a lot of experienced people, but i'm trying to make this helpful for everyone. Laters.......
 
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tl;dr

good luck though man. engine building isn't hard, just try not to rush anything and the details are very important.
 

ApexHunter

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Marysville, WA
Well i'm overdue for an update here....not a whole lot going on though.

Tueday 9/8 (engines) was lecture and a video on shortblock teardown (again using old school 16v pushrod v8's). I took the lab time to do an oil change on 1951.
Thursday 9/10 in 204 (blueprinting) we had some lecture, i don't recall what we discussed unfortunately. My short term memory leaves a lot to be desired most of the time. I am somewhere between a hummingbird and a fish in that respect. I spent the lab time transferring parts from my house to my storage locker at school and going to the hardware store for fasteners to mount the block to the engine stand.

Tuesday 9/15 in 104 i hot tanked block # 1, so now it's basically ready for magnafluxing. Hope to do that monday. I also picked up a hyundai smooth vc the other day so i started the cleaning process on that. It was pretty nasty. Outside had a fair amount of oil slime especially in the plug wire recess and lots of carbon caked onto the inside. I hit it with the pressure washer on hot then gave it two 30 minute sessions in the hot tank. Now it just needs to be stripped then it's ready for finishing.

Thursday 9/17 in the 204 lab i didn't do much. I was dead tired so i basically just went to the hardware store to get supplies. I hope to get more done next week. Lecture was a little bit on the metallurgy of cranks, rods, and pistons. We might get to take some field trips to Carillo and JE sometime in the near future.

So i really need to crank up the speed/productivity level here so i can stay ahead of the pack. Some goals for next week: Goal 1- Mag block #1. If it is not cracked, i'll begin measuring to see how distorted things are. Goal 2- Determine if rod set #1 is suitable for use. Goal 3- (If i can make it up there, time is an issue) take crank to EPWI for inspection, if it is sound it'll be micro polished. The rods will be taken to EPWI's rod guy for machining to work with 2g pistons.

I'll be back next week with an update.
 

ApexHunter

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Marysville, WA
So i'm overdue for an update, once again. I'm just gonna start updating after each class, because otherwise it's hard to remember what i did the week before, and it's too time consuming to make a cumulative post.

These last two weeks i did not make a lot of progress. Basically I've been cleaning block #1, to get it prepped for measuring. That along with lecture constituted the majority of Sept. 21 & 24. This last Monday the 28th, i was enjoying some breakfast and reading "How to build MP 4g63's" and discovered that while Non turbo blocks are cast identical to their turbo counterparts, the bosses for the piston oil squirters have to be drilled and tapped. The previous thurs. (24th) i had ran the VIN on the block and found out it was from a NT DSM. While this didn't seem like a problem at the time, now it definitely seemed like a problem. Since i will be using cast pistons, i really want to run the oil squirters for reliability.

So Tuesday Sept. 29 i brought my back up block to school....ran the VIN on this one and it was from a 1990 Talon TSI. Sigh. Thank you jeebus. The reason i had chosen the other block in the first place was this one had already been bored 0.50 mm (0.020") over, and i was looking forward to doing some boring. I'm probably doing plenty of that now, heh? Ah Ah Ah. (Yeah i'm a comedic genius.) Anyway, so block #2 won't be getting bored as my pistons are 0.50 mm over. It will be receiving a fresh hone, as long as the bore isn't too big yet. I'll explain what i mean by that later. And it turns out i will get to do some boring....some kid from the local high school brought his k24a1 block to us looking for some free machine work, so my teacher may have me do that.

The best part of the mess described above....after transporting block #2 from home to school, i'm getting ready to load up block #1 to take home. I go to show someone how the NT block needs to be tapped and drilled for oil squirters. Low and behold, it has already been done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Well, i guess i should have looked before assuming. I'm gonna stick with block 2 at this point because some of the threads for the squirters in block 1 look a little sketchy.

Thursday i got didn't get a whole lot done, there was an 8 question, essay answer test which took a little while. So i mainly had time to hot tank some stuff and then load up all my crap, and clean up.

A couple pics of the machine shop.

3977292604_a286033114_b.jpg

3977292614_8b92f0ea09_b.jpg


A short video i made on core plug removal. Prepare for how cool i am.

you tube
 

ApexHunter

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Apr 25, 2007
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Marysville, WA
Thanks. Yeah i'm stoked that i am able to take these classes. $26/unit x 5 units per semester for the engines class and 3 units per semester for the blueprinting class. Great deal to be able to use all this stuff. They have an engine dyno too, which they will let you use when you have your longblock finished. At this point it is pretty much limited to carb setups though as they haven't got a universal EMS yet.
 

ApexHunter

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Marysville, WA
Good, productive day today in 104 (engines). This morning we went over the 100 question multiple choice test that we took last week. I started out with a 77/100...i wasn't too thrilled. There were some crappy questions on the test, some of which were just plain wrong. So naturally the class nit picked the sh*t out of it. With the help of my classmates i argued my way up to an 88.

After reviewing the test we went to work in the shop. Job 1 was separating some pistons from some rods. I bought a set of NT 6 bolt pistons/rods from a board member, and as i am going to be sending the rods out to be machined for 2g pistons, i decided to remove the pistons today. The OEM setup utilizes the press fit design for the wrist pins. The pins are able to move freely inside the pin bosses on the piston, however they fit VERY tightly into the small end of the rod and must be removed with a press. (I won't be pressing the new pins in, that will be done with heat. More on that later.) So, i had my teacher show me how to use the press, and i proceeded to remove the pins.

Presses, such as this one, can be pretty sketchy contraptions. It made me a little nervous to hold the con rod while applying 5k lbs + of pressure to these little pieces of metal. Granted, these little pieces of metal endure a helluva lot of pressure inside an engine, and a boosted engine at that. Be that as it may, it's still a little scary.

Pressing out a wrist pin and shitting yourself in the process

Successfully pressing out a wrist pin

NOTE!!! If you want to check your rods for straightness, you may want to leave the piston on. I imagine this depends on the device/method you use to do this. In my case, i jumped the gun and removed the pistons before finding out that the rod straightness checker required the piston to remain on the rod. Doh! So, i'll be putting the new pistons on the rods, and crossing my fingers that the rods aren't bent, then checking them. This will be done at a later time.

I did however check the rods for twist, by holding them up against an extremely flat surface (the rod straightness tester's straight edge) and trying to stick a 0.002" feeler gauge between the rod and the surface in as many places as possible. This may or may not be the desired method for doing this, i honestly don't know. But, the rods did pass this test. I didn't take any pics or anything, i figured this would be pretty self-explanatory.

After lunch one of the shop aids gave a demo on magnafluxing:
How to mag a block

Later still i measured the stroke of Crank #1 (of 2). The school has a neat device for doing this (although it's probably twice my age).

Step one, place crank in device.

3989649976_bc1683a11e.jpg


Step two, zero it out. You want the rod journal to be at max strokage for this, obviously. In this case, i started at theoretical BDC.

3988895331_673a79f002.jpg


Step three, take crank from BDC to TDC, watching dial indicator to know when you get there.

3988895419_7878e2c173.jpg


Small dial on right is inches, small dial on left is tenths, and large dial is thousandths. In the case of the 4g63 crank, the stroke is 88mm as i'm sure we all know. This translates into 3.465".

3988895503_ecdc563d8e.jpg


Here's how Crank # 1 did:

3989649850_16a2d92904.jpg


Meh. Would have liked more consistency. I'll check out crank # 2 on thursday, hopefully it is better. If not i'm hoping that the rods are also slightly different in length, and i will pair them up with the corresponding journals if this is the case.

One of my classmates had a core longblock that was used in an ocean going boat. The engine used the "raw water" cooling method. HOLY FRACKING SHAT. This thing was ugly. Looks like it swallowed some water at some point. He ended up taking it back to where he got it from, but not before i snapped a few pics of this monstrosity. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek4.gif

3988894405_525b2010de.jpg


3988894493_793ea2843f.jpg


The heads were looking great also.

3988894707_8281a40fb7.jpg


3988894777_b489d8391d.jpg
 
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slugsgomoo

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wow, that engine is ugly- raw water cooling shouldn't do that, since seawater actually never comes in direct contact with the engine itself. Traditionally they use a heat exchanger much the same as an air/water intercooler setup, just water/water, naturally. One of the keys is to make sure you change the zincs in your exchanger though, even the good ones will corrode and mix the fluids eventually if you're stupid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

ApexHunter

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Today in blueprinting we went over a test, and then went to work in the shop. I measured the stroke of crank 2, hoping for consistent numbers around 3.465". Well, here are the results of crank 2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif

Starting with the rod journal for cylinder 4 and working my way to rod journal 1

3994333979_e34d667782.jpg

Rod journal 3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
3994333945_b7a65a52fd.jpg


Large stroke variance aside, I forgot how ugly this thing was. 2 of the rod journals are pretty thrashed, as you will see in the pics. Some of the mains have light scoring, but nothing standing proud of the journal.

If anyone wants this crank you are welcome to it. Come pick it up for free or pm me your zip & city and i'll get you a shipping quote. It will need to be reground. 0.027" variance in stroke is just a little much for me. I'm thinking no one will but if you do, hit me up. It's either one of you guys takes it or it spends the rest of it's days as a doorstop.

3994334103_55d7bef8e0.jpg


3995094168_001e371c9c.jpg


3995094126_df7a299662.jpg
 

1990ggsxnj

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EEK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
Woudln't that be quite a bit of material taken off to get those numbers flush accross the board?? I'm assuming that would also effect the reliablity of the crank. Good decision to go with the other! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

ApexHunter

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Correct me if i'm wrong here guys, but I don't think there is anything you can do to get the stroke back to where it needs to be. As far as regrinding, you'd have to take off at least 0.040" from the 2 rod journals to get rid of those pits. I talked to a crank specialist from EPWI in Anaheim and he said they really aren't a problem, as long as there is nothing standing proud of the journal, which there isn't. The pits will actually hold more oil. I suppose this might adversely affect oil pressure slightly though. The main's will probably need 0.010" or 0.020" taken off to get rid of the light scoring.
 

I personally think it would be much better use as the base of a table. then a door stop. Set of arms holding a glass top.
 

ApexHunter

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Marysville, WA
Had class yesterday, so i want to keep up with this and update. BTW we got our first real rain of the season here so I drove 1951, which was really cool. (knock on wood /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif) I put about 110 miles on her yesterday.

We started out in the shop. I'm getting ready to order some parts so i looked at parts for a while. Eventually my teacher told me to get my ass off the computer so i scraped the rest of the rear main seal gasket and then cruised around the shop until lunch.

After lunch we had a demo with the old school boring bar. I took a real short video of that. I may post it later just for shits and giggles as it is not too informative.

Then I decided to start sonic testing the block. That is an amazing little device. How it works (beyond using sound) i have no idea. I went through all the cylinders once and then double checked a few only to find that i had some pretty large discrepancies. So i decided to go back through and do it again. Round 2 i started getting better at using it. I'm about 1/2 way through now, i will finish thursday, upload some pics and maybe a vid.
 

Brianawd

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Portland OR,
Quote:
wow, that engine is ugly- raw water cooling shouldn't do that, since seawater actually never comes in direct contact with the engine itself. Traditionally they use a heat exchanger much the same as an air/water intercooler setup, just water/water, naturally. One of the keys is to make sure you change the zincs in your exchanger though, even the good ones will corrode and mix the fluids eventually if you're stupid.



Not true. Raw water cooling systems draw water from outside the boat (seawater or lake water). Water is pumped from the source to the engine block then the engine circulation pump forces the raw water thru the engine block and the water is expelled thru the exhaust.

What you are thinking of is the Fresh water cooling systems, also known as a closed cooling systems. The most common type utilizes a Heat Exchanger which functions similarly to the radiator in your car. Coolant (antifreeze) is circulated through one side of the heat exchanger where it is cooled by raw water that passes through the other side of the heat exchanger. The engine coolant is then circulated back into the engine. The raw water is expelled out of the boat thru the exhaust
 
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