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yubh8tn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
165
Location
coeur d alene, idaho
hey guys, I'm building/rebuilding my engine right now and I've done a bunch of research, but i'm worried i may have missed something. I want a green light from you guys before I order anything so I don't get it wrong. Could you tell me what you think?

The goal for the build is to be a street car with the occasional track use. I'm thinking around 400hp... give or take

cams: click (im thinking about the S2's)
valve springs: click
valves: machineshop chose them for me
pistons: click
rods: click
and for bearings i chose ACL tri-metals

I already have all ARP bolts (head, main, cams, cam gears cuz adjustable cam gears) and a main girdle.

Anything that you guys would change? I feel like I've researched this well enough but figured I should ask you guys before committing to anything.

Thanks
 
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yubh8tn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
165
Location
coeur d alene, idaho
Quoting diambo4life:
Hi. What is the goal for this build?


Sorry, I guess I should have put that in the thread.. lol. I edited it to say what the goals were.
 
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CutlassJim

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,694
Location
Manchester, NH
I'll throw my 0.02

I've seen this 1000 times in owning a 4G63 car for the past 15 years. Overbuilding. It's rampant these days with social media and Youtube and everyone having 1000hp cars.

For 400hp, something like a maxed out 16G/68HTA/20G, a fresh bone stock motor would be plenty. These bottom ends are extremely overbuilt from the factory. A good set of rings with a larger gap and good bearings and it will withstand 4-450 hp for years and years. I personally was only going to go with a set of pistons because I wanted to run 8.5 instead of 7.8 compression but I ended up getting a never used piston/rod shortblock from someone that spent too much money buying high end race car parts and never even finishing the build.

The same can be said for the cams and springs. 264/S1 style cams pull HARD until 7000 RPM. If you aren't shifting above that then getting something like a 272/S2 I feel is a waste IMHO. Yes they might make more torque/power at 7k rpm but in a street car that can still beat %90 of the cars on the road you will really miss that 30ish lbft at 3500 that you will get with a 264 style cam the other %99 of the time you are driving the car. My mantra when building personal/friends/customer cars is that unless you are using the car to win money than midrange and response trumps max hp any day.

The springs are great for shifting at 11k rpm. But you won't be doing that. And the extra spring pressure required to control valve motion at 11k will be a added wear and power lost everywhere below that.

My current build that dyno'd at 365whp. Mind you that's like 415ish at the crank.

8.5 pistons
"264" Crower cams
Home ported 2G head with Evo 9 valves, springs, retainers, rockers
Evo 3 intake manifold
Stock 1G throttle body
1000 CC injectors
FP exhaust manifold
Evo3 16G

Running 22psi on pump the car absolutely rips and surprises every single person that rides in it and beats cars with 200hp more.

I definitely learned to apply the KISS method when it comes to street cars.

In the end it's your choice and I hope you enjoy the heck outta the car whatever you choose.
 

yubh8tn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
165
Location
coeur d alene, idaho
I really appreciate this response. Thank you for taking the time to reply to me.

You're right. I overbuilt the sh*t out of this list. It all started with the "might as well" mentality.

My only problem is rebuilding the stock bottom end. Where can I get OEM equivalent pistons from?
 

CutlassJim

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,694
Location
Manchester, NH
What's wrong with the pistons in it? Even if they've been tapped by valves it was standard practice back in the day to just sand them down and run them.

Or you could use this chance to get a quality piston and change compression ratio. I much prefer the 8.5 vs 7.8. Weisco makes an 8.9 which is interesting. Have access to E85?

Even though no one ever listens to me if you get new pistons take a brown scotchbrite pad and break all the sharp edges usually on the valve cuts and where they dimple them for a part number and the forward position.

People focus so much on smoothing out all the nooks and crannies on the cylinder head and then leave a bunch of potential hot spots on the piston top which is just the other half of your combustion chamber.
 
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yubh8tn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
165
Location
coeur d alene, idaho
The intake cam gear skipped two teeth and made love to my pistons, I don't know if they're saveable

If this pic is too blurry I can grab a new one sometime this week.

I don't have E85 access, but I was planning on getting a methanol injection kit to help my 93 out. If I end up getting some 8.5 pistons like you say, I'll take a scotch brite pad to them. Don't see why not
 

diambo4life

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
275
Location
Edmond, Oklahoma
I would inspect and make sure your ring lands are ok but those pistons look fine to me. I would run the stock longblock as is sans some mild cams like HKS 264s or equivalent. Everything else is fine....stock valvetrain as well. Just make sure they're in GOOD condition. The stock engine is really stout. No need to mess with it for the power you're looking for.
 
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yubh8tn

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
165
Location
coeur d alene, idaho
Diambo, are you sure I should just sand the pistons and run them again? Are NPR's a bad idea? Sanding seems sketchy, but I trust you guys more than myself. Although, if my cylinders need help, the machineshop might bore them out.

Also, my valve springs have 280k on them. Should I just buy OEM equiavlents or maybe some EVO 9 springs like Jim? Or BC1100's like Dale (BogusSVO) from dsmtuners tells people to get?
 
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CutlassJim

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,694
Location
Manchester, NH
Like I mentioned before it was very common practice to just sand down the sharp edge and send it. Think of it as porting the piston /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm sorry I missed it but I didn't realize you jumped time. The short block is %99 probably OK. Did you have compression numbers from beforehand to gauge the status of the rings?

At that many miles I would %100 change the springs. They are easily %20-40 weaker than when they were new. A stock style replacement is a nice inexpensive way to go. When I built my 2G head a few years ago you could find Evo 9 parts with 5k miles on them because people pulled their cars apart for huge builds almost off the lot. I got them from Curt Brown since he ports so many heads. If you can find a low mileage set I would say run them. If not the "street" kit from Kiggly or MAP performance would be good options. I'm all about the beehive life.

Mmmmm Ti retainer goodness
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
I would agree with bogus on the valve springs. The stock ones are usually all over the place if you bother to check them. I like my s1 cams a lot. So much in fact I bought another set for my other project. I’m using a small 16g with evo 3 hot side. It boosts super fast but I think a tdo5 with a 20g compressor would have been a better option for me. 500hp is very common from a stock botTom end. I have pulled a few heads to find valve contacted pistons and wasn’t the wiser while it was running.
 
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