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Exhaust Manifold Choices

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
After quite a lot of consideration I'm pretty sure I'm going to put a 16G turbo on my other car. I'm actually erring towards a small 16G but the EVO III 16G is so cheap it is hard to ignore.

I realize bang for your buck is something that most of you guys consider when looking at a manifold to pair with a turbo like this which doesn't produce a whole lot of power and isn't that expensive. Nonetheless I would still like to know which of the following will offer me the best in terms of spool up and overall power to make the most of any setup I go with.

So I am considering: -

(1) EVO III exhaust manifold;
(2) FP Race Manifold;
(3) Tubular equal length runner manifold.

Spool up is my primary concern on this car, hence the reason I erred towards the small 16G. So even though you might say a tubular manifold is not worth the money, I would like to know if it will make an appreciable difference. I'd also like you to take into account other things that I could spend money on. For instance a tubular header might cost $1500 whereas the FP manifold is under $300. So would an FP manifold extrude honed, port matched and ceramic coated net me better results for the money?

Please discuss!
 

blacksheep

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May 1, 2002
Messages
15,485
Location
Urbandale, Iowa 50323
Paulie - Is that the last turbo the car will see, size wise? If you say someday I want to go big beast turbo, then you may want to get a manifold now if you find a deal. Else, I'd keep it simple. I'd get Evo 3 manifold , Big 16G, evo 3 02 and call it a day. Its simple, no chance of breaking, cracking and you could even buy used, get it ported cheap, coated up nice and rock it for another 5-10 years. I havent seen a FP one, but if its much better than evo 3, get that.
 

The fp mani is sick. Awesome bang for your buck. I agree that it doesn't need any port/honing work.
 

Rausch

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Dec 21, 2004
Messages
12,049
Location
Cleveland, OH
IF it were me: Evo III turbo (The spool up difference is negligible) FP mani- Evo III O2 housing- done.
 

curtis

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May 4, 2003
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11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
^What he said. 16G is the point of breaking things anymore your going into build everything territory
 

cheekychimp

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Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
Thanks guys! I think you have pretty much confirmed everything that I suspected after reading about these two manifolds over the past week. I don't think the 16G turbos can flow enough to reach the limits of the EVO III or FP manifolds so porting doesn't seem to net any gains and using the correct sealing ring seems to offer all of the benefits of port matching for a very limited outlay. I did wonder if something like an extrude hone would produce the same power at lower boost pressures but most of the information on the results of extrude honing seems to be in relation to intake manifolds rather than exhaust manifolds!

I don't think there is much point in doing another monster build. I want to go a very different route with this car and I honestly don't think this car will ever see anything bigger than an EVO III 16G. So it looks as if I'm looking at the cast manifold options here, either the FP Race or OEM EVO III. That's good news really since both are cheap.

I am still interested in that 4G63/EVO X turbo manifold Curtis. It doesn't fall into the same category as either of the options above. In terms of a dollar per horsepower investment it is a non starter because I don't think the EVO X turbo will produce any more power than an EVO III. What I can't seem to get across to most people however is that over here (on certain roads) 300-400 rpms difference in spool up makes a night and day difference. The other thing about that manifold is that if I can't get the Holset to spool fast enough for me I could always use it on the 2.3 litre with something like an EVO X FP Green or FP Red.

I think I will pick up a Small 16G second hand and buy a new EVO III from FP (can't argue with less than $500 shipped can you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif) That way I can compare the two and see which works best for a relatively modest outlay. Something else I stumbled upon and forgot I had is a tubular O2 housing with a very short open dump. I too thought I'd probably just go with an EVO III O2 housing, but it is just sitting there. Is it worth welding on a flex section and recirculating that open dump back into the downpipe instead? I only ask because there is supposed to be a fitment issue with the EVO III O2 housing? Is a slotted downpipe all that is required to fix this or does the flange really need to be angled and rewelded?
 
Last edited:

Paul,
I thought this was for the monster car not the daily. I'd go with the small 16g or even stick with the stock turbo. I remember when I could slam the pedal to the floor & the car would take off. I miss those days.

You really need a properly flanged dp for the Evo o2 housing to seal properly, otherwise it's going to leak. You could try doubling the gasket to try to get a good seal.
 

cheekychimp

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Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
Garfield, thanks for the input, yes that really is the sort of performance I'm looking for with this car. I started off thinking maybe 350-400 whp but I'm thinking more like 300-320 whp now with some really quick spool up. Funny you should mention the stock turbo because it actually pulls really nicely. I started looking at the Small 16G because it was supposed to spool as quick as the stock turbo with a bit more punch. But these are hard to find nowadays. Does anyone actually sell brand new Small 16G or 14B turbos?
 

turbofonz

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Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
475
Location
Granby, MA
FP race is easily the best bolt-on manifold for power and reliability. I've seen a pretty decent gain going from a very ported 2g manifold to the FP race.

small 16g compared to evo3, there's not much difference in spool ,but the evo3 will make a decent amount more power. Don't even think about it and just buy the Evo3. My 1g, with BC272 cams, FP race and evo3 turbo, ported 2g o2, 3" turboback and obvious supporting mods, I have logs showing 27psi at 3400rpms.... and currently making enough power to trap 125+ mph, so it's damn potent. My galant has a stock 1g manifold, o2 turbo/turbine WITH the fire ring and a 3" turboback. Obviously it spools quicker, but it's really not a whole lot quicker.
 

Guys,
If I understand this correctly, Paul isn't looking for a top end car here. More of very low end to mid-range ass kicking power band. Building a car isn't always about hp. I think right around 250-280 whp will give him the kick in the pants he's looking for. If I recall correctly the small 16g is extremely efficient around these figures. Keep in mind the roads are small, traffic is tight, he has to be able to get up to full tilt within the blink of an eye.

I would upgrade the rubber hoses to hard pipes but keep the diameter the same. Does the car have a cyclone manifold? In stock trim, the usdm cars puts out ~8' lb of torque more than it did hp. I think it was 195 hp & 203ft lb torque @ 2300rpm (my figures could be a little off).

Paul, leave the stock turbo & crank up the boost to 18psi, add a 190 lph Walbro fuel pump & a street clutch disc.
 

Ian M

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Jan 11, 2002
Messages
2,348
Location
Martinsburg,WV
I've never tried the FP manifold,mine on my white car is just a 2g manifold I ported to 7cm gasket size which would make it the equvilent of a ported Evo 3. The 2g manifolds port really easily so I couldn't justify the price of a Evo 3,but I'm sure the Evo manifolds are more availible in HK. Even with the 14b,it
was "snappy" and would spin the tires in a first gear roll pretty easy. I duplicated my cars setup on my brother-in-laws car albeit with a s16g and it ran great too. My green car has a stock unported 1g,and the hit is not the same at all. I don't know if i'd contribute that to the manifold,but at the very least it isn't hurting spoolup any.

You can't go wrong with a 14b,s16g,b16g,or a e316g IMO,but I agree about just going ahead and going with the Evo III turbo,especially considering how cheap they are nowadays.I swapped the 14b that was in the 12s to a old school tdo5 20g (one that's even clipped 10 degrees) on my white car,and the first trip around the block I noticed it didn't affect the spool much at all,just hit harder.While it obviously pulls way better in 3rd and 4th, I'd classify it a really fun low-mid range car. I'm sure a unclipped Evo III would have to work at least as well,and be worth the extra power from a 14b/s16g.
 
Last edited:

4thStroke

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
There isnt much more power to be had with the FP manifold over a nicely ported 2g or Evo3 manifold. This really comes down to how much you want to spend.

I wouldn't waste time even thinking about a tubular manifold. For the cost, its not worth it for a street car. I believe cast is the way to go for a street car, save for the 1g manifolds, cracking should not be an issue at all. I know a guy who switched from a DNP to a FP manifold and did not see any significant gains either way, and this was on a 450hp/500+tq Evo3 16G 1G.
 

boostin4door

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Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Chicago, Il.
I would def. get the FP. Bought one on the first group buy & love it!
The price has come down since then. the ports are alot bigger then the 2g mani's.
No need for porting, although I would get it ceramic coated to keep it from rusting.
 

mitsuturbo

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Jun 2, 2008
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Near Seattle, Washington
Quoting 4thStroke:
There isnt much more power to be had with the FP manifold over a nicely ported 2g or Evo3 manifold. This really comes down to how much you want to spend.

I wouldn't waste time even thinking about a tubular manifold. For the cost, its not worth it for a street car. I believe cast is the way to go for a street car, save for the 1g manifolds, cracking should not be an issue at all. I know a guy who switched from a DNP to a FP manifold and did not see any significant gains either way, and this was on a 450hp/500+tq Evo3 16G 1G.



A MAJOR benefit to the FP manifold, is that it puts a large (T04s cover) turbo out JUST far enough you dont have to dent your water pipe. I just found this out for myself and kick myself for buying a HAFE Cast manifold a couple years ago instead of the FP. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!
 

DynastyLCD

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Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
761
Location
Harwinton, CT
Quoting 4thStroke:
There isnt much more power to be had with the FP manifold over a nicely ported 2g or Evo3 manifold. This really comes down to how much you want to spend.

I wouldn't waste time even thinking about a tubular manifold. For the cost, its not worth it for a street car. I believe cast is the way to go for a street car, save for the 1g manifolds, cracking should not be an issue at all. I know a guy who switched from a DNP to a FP manifold and did not see any significant gains either way, and this was on a 450hp/500+tq Evo3 16G 1G.




agreed on both terms.

i picked up an FP manifold in the summer when the price came down. had a ported 2g before, my setup felt like it picked up a touch of lag, but at the same time, a bit more top end. it wasnt a huge gain either way, but the cleanliness was there, and as stated you wont have to dent your waterpipe with a larger turbo setup.

tubular manifolds arent exactly efficent for a daily drive either, in my opinion, the heat cycles a daily driver sees would kill the manifold in a few months time. i couldnt see anything good coming from them (especially being in new england) and wouldnt wanna run one on anything but a track car.
 

Rausch

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Dec 21, 2004
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12,049
Location
Cleveland, OH
Bear in mind his primary concern is spool, so a mani that flows better on top/Supports larger frames isn't a necessity. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Hondakiller

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Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
109
Location
Deltona Florida
See me I would go with a header style manifold cuz they look cooler but that is me. You can go on eBay and get a pritty nice miage header manifold it's $86.00 plus shipping. eBay #120458950559 if you would like to check it out.
 

Diego

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Dec 9, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
In a van down by the river, Iowa
I'm not sure if this matters, might help you. And it fits stock flanged turbos. I'm thinking of picking it up just for cost and wrapping it to keep the heat in.

click
 
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