I've seen posts the last few weeks that guys are running E85, and making great numbers on the dyno. What are you using for tuning? What ECU maps, injectors, etc? Can the stock fuel systen handle it, IE tank, pump, and lines that aren't metal? What upgrades do you need to do?
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E85 and what it takes
- Thread starter PrimerGod
- Start date
i ran it for a while but i think im going to hold out. i didnt have any issues while running it. i used DSMlink to tune it, i did not touch the fuel lines. if you want you could but i just didnt see the point. our lines are 90% metal anyways so..... just make sure your hoses are in good condition. i believe they are making hoses that will accept e85. one problem i did see was that it would eat the isolators on the injectors, the one thing that changed my mind about it. im not a fan of pulling my fuel line every weekend.
added: also maybe jack will see this and he will give more info as him and his brother run this 100% of the time.
added: also maybe jack will see this and he will give more info as him and his brother run this 100% of the time.
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14u2nV
Well-known member
When it's warm, I run it in my cars, and have done nothing to them. In cold weather, the Ethanol just won't warm up quick enough for me, so I don't bother. I've run it in the galant for over a year, sometimes full tank, sometimes mix and have never had to replace anything in the fuel system.
You may want to post over on utdsm.org as well. I've read of some guys running E85 locally.
curtis
Well-known member
From what I've read heard and seen
Thermostat needs to change to a higher temp. Its all to do with the internal temp of the motor for better flame propagation.
Type 2 anodization on fuel rail, regulator etc, o rings need to change and lines also to something thats e85 safe.
Fuel pump needs to be in line and not in tank.
a/f ratio is much different
The reason is because of flash point of the e 85 vapor in comparision to gasoline. A cup of gasoline isn't really flammable the vapor is. Where e85 the vapor and the liquid is both. All it takes is one spark from the pump and boom.
Not saying you have to do everything here just what I've seen. Its just like toulene or xylene, its one of the major parts of gasoline and has a hell of a lot of energy in it. You can run a few gallons of it along with a cap of marvels mystery oil (to help lub everything from the toulene drying everything out) 30% of this with 93 and your up in the 110 octane level. Where if you just ran straight toulene it would run but I would be worried about whats going on with a/f ratios and how the pistons are holding up.
If I were you I'd do what the turbo buick guys have been doing for years...... Cheap and it works. It's not always octane that makes HP, atomization, flame propogation and the amount of energy in to the ratio of energy out is what makes big numbers.
Homebrew FTW
read about what the f1 cars use read all 3 pages.
Thermostat needs to change to a higher temp. Its all to do with the internal temp of the motor for better flame propagation.
Type 2 anodization on fuel rail, regulator etc, o rings need to change and lines also to something thats e85 safe.
Fuel pump needs to be in line and not in tank.
a/f ratio is much different
The reason is because of flash point of the e 85 vapor in comparision to gasoline. A cup of gasoline isn't really flammable the vapor is. Where e85 the vapor and the liquid is both. All it takes is one spark from the pump and boom.
Not saying you have to do everything here just what I've seen. Its just like toulene or xylene, its one of the major parts of gasoline and has a hell of a lot of energy in it. You can run a few gallons of it along with a cap of marvels mystery oil (to help lub everything from the toulene drying everything out) 30% of this with 93 and your up in the 110 octane level. Where if you just ran straight toulene it would run but I would be worried about whats going on with a/f ratios and how the pistons are holding up.
If I were you I'd do what the turbo buick guys have been doing for years...... Cheap and it works. It's not always octane that makes HP, atomization, flame propogation and the amount of energy in to the ratio of energy out is what makes big numbers.
Homebrew FTW
read about what the f1 cars use read all 3 pages.
You also want a good breather system, or what some of the big guys are doing is running a vaccum breather system on their crankcases. Reason being is when your engine is not totally warmed up and you start driving it the alchol will get by the rings and if your engine is hot enough the alchol will stay in vapor form until you shut the engine off and then as it cools the vapor will turn back into a liquid and starts to break down your oil and before you know it you will have a rod thats knocking. I know this from experiance from one of my buddies cars. 2 spun rod bearings within 3,000 miles.
You would also want to take off your engine oil cooler, from what I have learned about this stuff, is the hotter you can keep everything around it the better off you are.
You would also want to take off your engine oil cooler, from what I have learned about this stuff, is the hotter you can keep everything around it the better off you are.
The mods might want this thread in the tech section.
biglady112
Well-known member
You guys are all wrong. A lot of us have been running this stuff for nearly two years in our dsms with stock fuel systems and modified fuel systems. We have never seen any issues.
Ricky may have had some oring issues, but that will happen at some point. There are so many benefits to it. I could post them all, but there is more than enough information out there talking about all the good from E85.
These two sites have tons of information below.
www.rmdsm.org
www.dsmtuners.com
I could go on forever, just know that I an running it 100% in my colt with 450cc injectors. You have to have super low airflow to do so, 20lbs/min or less, but it can be done on a stock fuel system. I do run a walbro 255 however. If you run E85, I highly recommend and highly urge you to purchase a wideband or take your car to a dyno and use their wideband. If not your valves and piston crowns will not be happy for long. You will run dangerously lean if you just try and throw this stuff in and go.
Steven
Ricky may have had some oring issues, but that will happen at some point. There are so many benefits to it. I could post them all, but there is more than enough information out there talking about all the good from E85.
These two sites have tons of information below.
www.rmdsm.org
www.dsmtuners.com
I could go on forever, just know that I an running it 100% in my colt with 450cc injectors. You have to have super low airflow to do so, 20lbs/min or less, but it can be done on a stock fuel system. I do run a walbro 255 however. If you run E85, I highly recommend and highly urge you to purchase a wideband or take your car to a dyno and use their wideband. If not your valves and piston crowns will not be happy for long. You will run dangerously lean if you just try and throw this stuff in and go.
Steven
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biglady112
Well-known member
I actually forgot to mention. I was not able to make over 12psi(AEM 5 bar map sensor) on pump gas with the 11b. I am now currently spiking to 17.1psi and holding near 13psi at 6000rpm. I lose 1psi every 1000rpm. I make full boost at 2700rpm.
All of this is done WITHOUT an intercooler. Without E85, this would not be possible.
Steven
All of this is done WITHOUT an intercooler. Without E85, this would not be possible.
Steven
biglady112
Well-known member
Spoiled here. Three right down the street from my house. And a whole bunch on the way to work. I think there is 35-45 in the front range area alone. Not to mention all the little towns across the plains.
Steven
Steven
Quote:
You guys are all wrong. A lot of us have been running this stuff for nearly two years in our dsms with stock fuel systems and modified fuel systems. We have never seen any issues.
Ricky may have had some oring issues, but that will happen at some point. There are so many benefits to it. I could post them all, but there is more than enough information out there talking about all the good from E85.
These two sites have tons of information below.
www.rmdsm.org
www.dsmtuners.com
I could go on forever, just know that I an running it 100% in my colt with 450cc injectors. You have to have super low airflow to do so, 20lbs/min or less, but it can be done on a stock fuel system. I do run a walbro 255 however. If you run E85, I highly recommend and highly urge you to purchase a wideband or take your car to a dyno and use their wideband. If not your valves and piston crowns will not be happy for long. You will run dangerously lean if you just try and throw this stuff in and go.
Steven
Yep, im sorry. Im wrong, what I just said I totally made it up cause I work for the oil companies and im just tryin to get all you guys hooked. I guess since im wrong I haven\'t seen two spun rod bearings and countless times I have changed the oil in a E85 vehicle and the oil looked like water and smelled just like E85 and when I sent in the oil sample to our lab it didn\'t come back so deluted the guy from the oil lab was stumped that I didn\'t spray it down with brake clean before I sent it in. Im sorry biglady, im all wrong and you are correct.
You guys are all wrong. A lot of us have been running this stuff for nearly two years in our dsms with stock fuel systems and modified fuel systems. We have never seen any issues.
Ricky may have had some oring issues, but that will happen at some point. There are so many benefits to it. I could post them all, but there is more than enough information out there talking about all the good from E85.
These two sites have tons of information below.
www.rmdsm.org
www.dsmtuners.com
I could go on forever, just know that I an running it 100% in my colt with 450cc injectors. You have to have super low airflow to do so, 20lbs/min or less, but it can be done on a stock fuel system. I do run a walbro 255 however. If you run E85, I highly recommend and highly urge you to purchase a wideband or take your car to a dyno and use their wideband. If not your valves and piston crowns will not be happy for long. You will run dangerously lean if you just try and throw this stuff in and go.
Steven
Yep, im sorry. Im wrong, what I just said I totally made it up cause I work for the oil companies and im just tryin to get all you guys hooked. I guess since im wrong I haven\'t seen two spun rod bearings and countless times I have changed the oil in a E85 vehicle and the oil looked like water and smelled just like E85 and when I sent in the oil sample to our lab it didn\'t come back so deluted the guy from the oil lab was stumped that I didn\'t spray it down with brake clean before I sent it in. Im sorry biglady, im all wrong and you are correct.
biglady112
Well-known member
My apologies Boostin Hard. I should have been more specific to who I directed my comment towards. I can agree with you on the diluting of the oil. I hae seen this as well.
Now that I look back it was more towards just Curtis. I just kinda skimmed through and posted before I thought. My bad.
Stock fuel lines and rail.
Intank pump
And have used no thermostat, 160-stock and all kinds of mixtures here.
No issues in over two years for all of us.
Next time I will place my thoughts more appropriately.
Steven
Now that I look back it was more towards just Curtis. I just kinda skimmed through and posted before I thought. My bad.
Stock fuel lines and rail.
Intank pump
And have used no thermostat, 160-stock and all kinds of mixtures here.
No issues in over two years for all of us.
Next time I will place my thoughts more appropriately.
Steven
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When I ran my CRX on Meth we would have the same issue with the oil. When we rebuilt the motor it wasn't nearly as bad. Did the oil that you sent in come from a motor that was old? I was thinking that maybe the rings on it let the E85 leak down into the crankcase.
Rausch
Well-known member
Geez Chris, stop it with all the bad info. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
While I'm sure when it comes to the fuel system concerns, the stock stuff will work, at least for awhile. My concern is, and has always been the fact that the ethanol will eat anything rubber over time. There are lines/hoses specifically made for alcohol based fuels, but they are not very common. The rubber stuff used in the stock system will break down over time, guaranteed. Whether it's 3 months or 3 yrs., I can't say, but, by nature, it will. Factor in the other concers, oil contamination, evap, etc., and you really need to make sure all your bases are coverd no matter what your take on E85...
While I'm sure when it comes to the fuel system concerns, the stock stuff will work, at least for awhile. My concern is, and has always been the fact that the ethanol will eat anything rubber over time. There are lines/hoses specifically made for alcohol based fuels, but they are not very common. The rubber stuff used in the stock system will break down over time, guaranteed. Whether it's 3 months or 3 yrs., I can't say, but, by nature, it will. Factor in the other concers, oil contamination, evap, etc., and you really need to make sure all your bases are coverd no matter what your take on E85...
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The oil had about 500 miles on it. I can\'t stress enough about letting your engine warm up to operating temp before driving it when running E-85 and change your oil very often.
Sorry big lady, I though you were talking to me and im a little stressed out about my shoulder surgery tommorrow and shouldn\'t be talking it out on you. I just though you were lashing out on me.
Sorry big lady, I though you were talking to me and im a little stressed out about my shoulder surgery tommorrow and shouldn\'t be talking it out on you. I just though you were lashing out on me.
85% alcohol? Don't they have, or are planning E100, which is 100%, I believe...
Not even sure if we have that available around here, anyhow...But, to be on the safe side, I would certainly think about what *should* be changed, as engines that are designed to run on alcohol generally have a slightly different setup/parts (seals, etc.)
Not even sure if we have that available around here, anyhow...But, to be on the safe side, I would certainly think about what *should* be changed, as engines that are designed to run on alcohol generally have a slightly different setup/parts (seals, etc.)
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