Driveshaft rebuilds advice requested

[skivittlerjimb]

So 280/1000 has had driveline vibration issues from day one of my ownership back in January. Symptoms are:

-Varying degrees of vibration from ~12-25mph and then again from 35mph-50mph.
-Vibration is less noticeable under hard acceleration or hard braking, but it's still there.
-It's most noticeable at light throttle cruise or no-throttle, clutch-in coasting. At a constant 40mph light throttle, it's quite bad to the point where the even the dash shakes.
-Vibration is felt through the seat, not the steering wheel. It has happened with three different seats of tires/wheels, and with one set that was freshly mounted and balanced, so I'm pretty sure it's not tire-related. My passenger seat instructor at Calabogie could feel the vibration under accel. and seemed a bit concerned that I wasn't more concerned about it.
-Metal-to-metal clunk noises are heard sometimes when letting up the clutch up in reverse or first or going around a very tight turn in 1st gear (like u-turns). When I had my alignment done the tech. said it was the Lobro joint making the noise, and he seem quite concerned I was taking it to the track with that noise and vibration present. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

Rather than try to chase down a single source, I figured a full driveshaft redo is in order. Is that a reasonable assumption? The u-joints do not appear to have any play, but there is definitely some slop in the carrier bearings. I really don't want to damage the tranny. or the VC or any of the diffs. further, and I want to feel confident the drivetrain isn't going explode at 100+mph on the track.

I've never tackled a job like this before and frankly the write-ups I've seen here and elsewhere about this kind of job have me a bit intimidated due to my time, tool, and skill limitations. Would a competent 4x4 shop with lots of driveshaft experience be a good candidate for this kind of work, or do I need someone with lots of Mitsu/DSM AWD experience to do it properly? I'm sure I can find the former kind of shop up here in VT but there aren't too many of the latter.

Any advice or been-there-done-that is appreciated... Many thanks.

-Jim B.
280/1000
1432/2000

 

[CP]

Jim, it's pretty easy to do actually. Here's my driveshaft saga. I've still got the same symptoms as you do. I've got one carrier bearing left to replace (the front, for the 2nd time) and will be installing all new rubber bushings for the CBs in the next 10 days when the new CB goes on.

Mine doesn't make any noise at the track, only while cruising at a steady speed, or coasting down a hill...and I can make it a LOUD noise if I want it to be. I'm not worried about it, but it's annoying as hell. Even if your lobro joint was having issues, I don't see how that's a safety hazard. If it was completely frozen and locked up, the driveshaft can still turn the rear diff.

I forget where your car came from, but you'll want to start pre-soaking the c-clips for all the u-joints with PB. Make sure you follow the vfaq, and over-mark all the different driveshaft sections. As you're pulling it apart, make sure you didn't forget to mark any sections.

I've got a spare driveshaft if you'd like to borrow it while you rebuild yours. But it'll only take a few hours to do. Just read through my thread after you go through the vfaq. Let me know if you have any questions, as I've done this a few times now. The gear puller is the only strange tool you'll need. My local NAPA will lend me theirs for free now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Why not upgrade to an aluminum DS?

 

[Brianawd]

Quote:
Why not upgrade to an aluminum DS?



Because this is the Galant board and most people are not going to spend $749.99 on a driveline.

 

[ggsxkid]

^ solid or still three piece, which is a Q i have (sry for the thread jack)now im going to have all solid poly bushings in my mounts now if i were to get a solid aluminum ds would ther still be to much movement from the engine and trans between shifts to the point where it would cause problems. all i see in my mind is the tranfercase just getting slammed by the ds between shifts. i know the motor is not going to move half as much now that it will have solid mounts but i just want some creditable info

 

You can't run a full solid drive shaft in our cars. You have to run AT LEAST 2 piece setup due to the angles of the dangles and other various technical jargon. You can replace the front 2 driveshafts with one solid piece and then use an adapter for it to mount to the remaining back driveshaft. That is how DSS does it with theirs and it looks like that's how I'm going to do it with mine but I'll end up spending half the money they charge. Depending on if there is an interest I might offer them to the gvr4 community.

How would a transfercase get "slammed" by the DS btwn shifts as a solid? Even if it did how would it be different then a 3 piece driveshaft setup? I don't really understand what you are asking.

 

[ggsxkid]

well arent the rubber areas in the carrier bearings there for a lil bit of movement of the engine and trans back and forth, besides the angles you were talking about?

now this part is really hard to explain on the pc (but it can be done with simple gestures in 2 seconds) so this is the theory i had if i had a 1 piece ther is not going to be any movement of it at all back and forth. but ther will be some movement of the engine and trans and the t case is going straight to the ds. so waht i saw in my mind is that in between shifts the t case will move forward then back with the output of it slamming in to the non moving driveshaft. im sure this sounds completely stupid to you...

 

That's the purpose of the yoke so you can have play there. Notice how Domestics with one piece driveshafts don't have carrier bearings. Carrier bearings are meant to be position holders while still allowing for rotation, not to allow for "play".

 

[ggsxkid]

well i knew that for domestics but the movement of the drivetrain is opposed to the direction of the ds but ill take your word for it and stop filling this thread with useless posts

 

[skivittlerjimb]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Digit- I'm not opposed to upgrading but certainly not for that kind of money.
I'm just looking for reliability and a minimum of vibration.

-Jim B.
280/1000
1432/2000

 

You could do a steel 1 piece front driveshaft upgrade for under $300 for the whole job(and by you I mean anyone could with no connections or hookups). As for the carrier bearing situation I have no clue on that sh*t, that's the main reason I'm going to a 1 piece front driveshaft. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[Barnes]

Any chance you could be more detailed about why the one piece shaft wouldn't work? Is it purely a matter of bad pinion angles being incorrect for a single shaft? Or am I missing something else. I would think even T-case movement should be manageable.

EDIT: sorry Jim, I joined in the hijack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Rausch]

^^^ continuing the jack....
i was lead to believe (i really have not investigated this) that it is a line of sight issue as well, as in the floorboard or something would be in the way.??? anyone confirm? cause if thats the case, it could be fixed.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

I have not run into a line of sight issue with the 2 piece, I'm not sure one piece but I do know in many sanctioned racing circuits if you cut the tunnel for the driveshaft you wouldn't be allowed to run in any "street" class.

The pinion angles would be too high and the driveshaft would pretty much tear itself apart over time.(laymens explenation)

Sorry for the highjack, We can start a new thread if anyone wants to discuss this anymore.

 

[JNR]

That would be one *long* shaft!

My GTO has a 2-piece shaft, as well, and some of the guys have converted to one-piece; I'm sure it's a slightly different design, but if nothing else, you eliminate some slack points...

Whether it's worth it, who knows...the angles seem pretty tame (as compared to a lifted short wheelbase 4x4, for instance), so doubt that would create an issue.

 

[Rausch]

^^^ sorry, i was referring to a 1 piece...should have been more clear. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
start a thread so we're not cluttering this one up any more than it is....sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

Back to the original question...

I rebuilt my prop shaft myself following the directions on www.plymouthlaser.com and it wasn't bad at all. Just be sure to mark the alignment of everything when you take it apart so it goes back together the same way. The only specialized tools I used, IIRC, was a torque wrench, the snap rink pliers for the u-joint c-clips, and a gear puller to get the inner race of the carrier bearings off the shaft. (But be careful using the gear puller. Make sure you get the point on the end of the puller in the little divit on the end of the driveshaft or it could slip and tear up the threads.) I also used an electric impact with the gear puller to make things go quicker, but thats not really necessary. As long as you mark everything and take it one step at a time, its really just a matter of taking old pieces off and bolting new ones on.

 

[CP]

Read my thread.

I used my impact wrench the other week and it made easy work of the big nut. Do it at your "friend-with-air-tools'" house. Have a 27mm(?...big) socket available for the nut. Replace the CB rubber mounting bushings while you're at it. There are 8 of them and they don't cost much.

 

[skivittlerjimb]

Alright guys, you're almost convincing me. Any particular flavor of gear-puller needed? I'll read up on Cy's post, the VFAQ, and the plymouthlaser.com write ups (I think those last two are the same). The local Mitsu dealer gives us 20% off list and you're right, the CB insulators are < $3 each for the eight needed.

Once the CB's and U-joints are replaced (if needed) and the Lobro is repacked with grease, is that the point a driveshaft shop would check for shaft balance? Or do you take them to the DS shop while they are pulled off the car? Sorry for the newbie direction this thread is headed... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

-Jim B.
280/1000
1432/2000

 

[CP]

If you made lots of marks on all the different parts at the start, you shouldn't need to bring it to any shop. Just put it back together the same way it came apart.