What exactly is better about the cyclone intake manifold. I heard that it has dual runners or something like that. But i'm not exactly sure. What are the advantages and disadvatages of using one. What are the gains? Thanks.
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curtis
Well-known member
Torque if its hooked up properly.
Do a search and read up about thew controllers you can build (Ken Inn or myself) or look up the electronic stuff Jeff(keydiver) is doing. They work and I love mine.
Do a search and read up about thew controllers you can build (Ken Inn or myself) or look up the electronic stuff Jeff(keydiver) is doing. They work and I love mine.
the cyclone helps to spool your turbo up faster.
Basically the way they work, is by closing off four of the runners on your intake (1 to each intake port)which creates higher velocity air going into your engine.
Basically the way they work, is by closing off four of the runners on your intake (1 to each intake port)which creates higher velocity air going into your engine.
bazeng
Well-known member
what about top end?
The idea behind a dual runner intake manifold design is... long runners on an intake are good for low end power and short runners on an intake are good for top end power.
The theory is that a 'dual runner' intake design has both giving you the best of both worlds.
At lowers RPM the longer runners are used and at higher RPMs the shorter runners are used. The trick is the switching between the two sets of runners.
The theory is that a 'dual runner' intake design has both giving you the best of both worlds.
At lowers RPM the longer runners are used and at higher RPMs the shorter runners are used. The trick is the switching between the two sets of runners.
bazeng
Well-known member
does it actually switch runners? or just opens an additional runner when u start to move up the rev range?!?!
im just curious..
but if it switched, would it not mean that the runner size are halved??
im just curious..
but if it switched, would it not mean that the runner size are halved??
autobahntom
Well-known member
It doesn't 'switch' runners; just opens the short ones under certain conditions (usually based on rpm's, road speed, boost levels, etc).
The long ones are always open.
As others mentioned; there is an increase in gas milage and low end torque.
This intake manifold is really for small turbo's though; as the upper rpm flow is not really that great. (unless you get it ported/extrude honed)
Tom
The long ones are always open.
As others mentioned; there is an increase in gas milage and low end torque.
This intake manifold is really for small turbo's though; as the upper rpm flow is not really that great. (unless you get it ported/extrude honed)
Tom
ken inn
Well-known member
years ago, shannon knopflein(sp?) did a flow test, cyclone, stock, and extrude honed intake. at wot, the stock intake outflowed the cyclone by a whopping 2 cfm. the extrude honed intake outflowed the stocker by an incredible 4 cfm. that's what, $100/cfm? for the 9,000,203,601,022th time, if you are looking for alloutwot100%tpswidef*&%$#gopenthrottle performance, the cyclone is NOT for you. if you are going to spend 400 bucks on an extrude honed intake, you need your head examined, cause you got more money than brains. if you are wot all the time, and use an on/off switch instead of an accelerator pedal, the cyclone is not for you. if you drive like me, and want stuff like better low end, better fuel economy, driveability, and got more than enough top end, the cyclone is a great option. once again, switch for gas pedal=cyclone NO. better cruising/low end/fuel econony/driveability=cyclone YES.
so, the way I read all these posts a cyclone without keydivers chip or some other activation has still nice/better torque but loses out big on top end ?
logick, you've got it backwards.
If you don't have a keydiver chip for it (and the associated plumbing), you won't get the low-mid benefits. With all the valves open, the top end will be the same as the OEM US intake manifold.
If you don't have a keydiver chip for it (and the associated plumbing), you won't get the low-mid benefits. With all the valves open, the top end will be the same as the OEM US intake manifold.
has anybody hooked their car up to a dyno to see if the low end toque is increased? If so by how much? Do you think this intake would be a good combo with an evo3 16g? I would like more low end torque. I used to V8's, while i know these cars will never compare on torque at least more would be nice.
someone on the board did dyno the manifold. they didn't do its as to where the cyclone was working on its own during the dyno, but instead did a dyno where the long runners were open (to see the low end gains)and another dyno with both open. it was posted a while ago and i tried to find it but there are so many posts on the cyclone manifold that i gave up. if you want to see it, do a search. it might take a while but its well worth it to see the gains.
they are well worth the effort as a lot of torque was gained down low, which is really nice if you do more than drag and highway racing. i can't remember the gains of the top of my head so i won't spit out any false info but i remember being relatively impressed and wishing i hadn't sold my old one.
it takes a little bit of work to get it running propperly but i think its worth it. the manifold is certainly not for everyone. you will find a post when you search where number3 states that nate lost about 60 peak horse power by switching to the cyclone. i don't know if it was hooked up properly or not, or if the car was tuned appropriately for the change (however i'm pretty sure it was because nate knows is stuff).
just keep in mind its not just about hitting high numbers on the dyno but more so about broadening the power band. why do you think people are able to run such low numbers on small stock mitsu turbos (14b and 16g)? another nice point to add is that the gas mileage gains are real, kenn in posted getting 28 highway mpg after installing the manifold. also, low end torque is really nice when you're moving lots of crap like i am now. just moved out of the dorm and my vr4 is full of stuff. its a heavy beast now and extra torque would be nice.
theres a lot to consider before switching.
they are well worth the effort as a lot of torque was gained down low, which is really nice if you do more than drag and highway racing. i can't remember the gains of the top of my head so i won't spit out any false info but i remember being relatively impressed and wishing i hadn't sold my old one.
it takes a little bit of work to get it running propperly but i think its worth it. the manifold is certainly not for everyone. you will find a post when you search where number3 states that nate lost about 60 peak horse power by switching to the cyclone. i don't know if it was hooked up properly or not, or if the car was tuned appropriately for the change (however i'm pretty sure it was because nate knows is stuff).
just keep in mind its not just about hitting high numbers on the dyno but more so about broadening the power band. why do you think people are able to run such low numbers on small stock mitsu turbos (14b and 16g)? another nice point to add is that the gas mileage gains are real, kenn in posted getting 28 highway mpg after installing the manifold. also, low end torque is really nice when you're moving lots of crap like i am now. just moved out of the dorm and my vr4 is full of stuff. its a heavy beast now and extra torque would be nice.
theres a lot to consider before switching.
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I have a JDM Galant. I have tried 3 different setups:
1. Stock cams, cyclone manifold, 16g: in other words, the factory setup. Boosts quickly, very tractable round town, as Ken has said in the past "Where previously I have had to use third gear, I can now use fourth". Peak torque approx 3500rpm, peak power around 6200rpm and falls very quickly after peak.
2. 264/264 cams, cyclone manifold, 16g: obviously I have lost a bit of low end torque, but the cyclone does a good job of masking the lumpiness of these cams, but doesn't prove to be TOO much of a restriction in the topend. Peak torque still at 3500 rpm, but a bit less, however cams hold the torque curve higher over the second half of the rev range. Peak power still at about 6200rpm, but much higher with a similar level of boost. Power still trails off after peak, but not as quickly due to the cams.
3. 264/264 cams, single runner manifold, 16g: low end torque gone, much more lag, peak torque about 4000rpm, feels very sluggish down low. Peak power now at 7000rpm, but still falls quickly after peak.
I swapped from the cyclone to the single runner for more topend. It moved the peak power along about 800rpm, but torque was down everywhere. The peak power was a little bit higher, but only because the revs were higher (less torque, but higher revs). Guess what? I changed back to a cyclone.
Like Ken said, if you are WOT all the time, and you have a big turbo/cams combo, a cyclone is not for you, but that said, neither is a normal single runner manifold, or even an extrude honed manifold. You should really be looking at a aftermarket manifold.
Mike.
1. Stock cams, cyclone manifold, 16g: in other words, the factory setup. Boosts quickly, very tractable round town, as Ken has said in the past "Where previously I have had to use third gear, I can now use fourth". Peak torque approx 3500rpm, peak power around 6200rpm and falls very quickly after peak.
2. 264/264 cams, cyclone manifold, 16g: obviously I have lost a bit of low end torque, but the cyclone does a good job of masking the lumpiness of these cams, but doesn't prove to be TOO much of a restriction in the topend. Peak torque still at 3500 rpm, but a bit less, however cams hold the torque curve higher over the second half of the rev range. Peak power still at about 6200rpm, but much higher with a similar level of boost. Power still trails off after peak, but not as quickly due to the cams.
3. 264/264 cams, single runner manifold, 16g: low end torque gone, much more lag, peak torque about 4000rpm, feels very sluggish down low. Peak power now at 7000rpm, but still falls quickly after peak.
I swapped from the cyclone to the single runner for more topend. It moved the peak power along about 800rpm, but torque was down everywhere. The peak power was a little bit higher, but only because the revs were higher (less torque, but higher revs). Guess what? I changed back to a cyclone.
Like Ken said, if you are WOT all the time, and you have a big turbo/cams combo, a cyclone is not for you, but that said, neither is a normal single runner manifold, or even an extrude honed manifold. You should really be looking at a aftermarket manifold.
Mike.
