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coil pack headache

vtecds1

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So here it is...another problem comes up right after I thought I`m almost done with the car. I`m getting fed up with fixing the po hack jobs and I`m afraid if I don't resolved soon, I might end up just selling the car as is.

The car was miss-firing bad and we traced it back to one of the coils. Getting a hold of a coil pack isn't the problem, it`s the wiring hack job the po did. He cut the old plug and crimped the wires to the plug that connects on the back side of the head. Now it looks like I have to do the same thing with the new coil pack. Now my question is, Is there anything that looks wrong with the diagram?

To my knowledge this is how it should be...



But my current set up is like this...



When I switched it to the right way before, my car would not idle right. I have been running the car with my "different" firing order for some time and it seems to work well. Why, I have no clue... But I would like to return or try to do it the right way. So I want to know if you guys can make out the wires and how it should be connected. Also, there is a plug that has no wire on the other end as you can see from the second pic. There is a wire that is just hanging with the same color combo, but I`m not sure if I should hook it up. Any replies or suggestions would be of great help. I need to get this car running soon because I`m getting to the point of just giving up on the project.





 

broxma

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Nov 16, 2009
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911
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San Antonio Tx
It's late but it seems like you just need a few things, not the least of which is the actual wiring from the 3 prong coil pack harness side connector to the coils. I can get that for you in the morning. The other thing you need is a solder gun and some heatshrink. Those crimp-on's are fine for some ghetto stereo but not for things like the coil pack or ECU harness. I'll do a complete diagram of the coil pack tomorrow if I don't have class in the morning.

/brox
 

Your first picture is correct, but I don't even see how the motor could run with the setup in your second picture. Cylinders 1&4 have to come off one coil, and 2&3 off the other.
That connector you are holding in the last picture is your fuelpump test connector. Do NOT connect it to anything, (except +12 volts if you want to test the fuelpump).
That connector on the head is actually going to the transistor pack mounted there.

 
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TurboTrader

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Jan 30, 2009
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161
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Pemberton, NJ
The second diagram from the OP makes sense, why it will only run that way, is what doesn't make sense.

In a wasted spark system, and the way the stock ignition system works, and considering piston position and firing order, cylinders 1 and 3 fire at the same time and 2 and 4 fire at the same time. So essentially, you could switch the plug wires between 1 and 3 (or 2 and 4), or both at the coil packs, and see no difference, no better and no worse.

As mentioned above, there must be a weak connection somewhere provided the wiring is correct. Although it is a mess, double check the wiring with the FSM diagram keydiver posted and join the connections the correct way with solder and quality heat shrink, and all should be well.
 

vtecds1

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Quoting keydiver:
Your first picture is correct, but I don't even see how the motor could run with the setup in your second picture. Cylinders 1&4 have to come off one coil, and 2&3 off the other.
That connector you are holding in the last picture is your fuelpump test connector. Do NOT connect it to anything, (except +12 volts if you want to test the fuelpump).




So does it matter which coilpack will be 1&4 and 2&3? The reason I`m asking is because the coil packs has the different wire colors going to them. One has the Y/B and Y/G on the other. I don't know if it has to go to a specific pack. Also, there is a Y/B wire that is not connected. It is in the second picture. What should I do with that?

I`m definitely going to solder and heat shrink the wires as soon as I get the new coilpack from OHB. I still cant believe that the po did it this way just like the MAF wires.
 

vtecds1

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I did the coil pack test yesterday and the reading I`m getting is 1.6 and 1.7 ohms on the primary. Is that a little to high for the standard value of 0.77 - 0.95 ? Then I did the secondary and I got 12.84 kohms and 12.72 kohms. Time for a new one?
 

What kind of coilpack is it? The way it is drawn in your drawing it doesn't look like an original GVR-4.
 

vtecds1

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Sorry about the drawing./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Seems to be just a regular oem coilpack. I dont know which year though. I`m getting a JDM coil pack from OldHairyBastard today...Does the wiring matter? Is the yellow/black suppose to go to coil 1 and 4, yellow/green to 2 and 3 or vice versa?



 
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vtecds1

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I found this online. .

It says that it's the firing order for a 2g(95). It doesn't seem right but that's the same firing order as my car. Can someone confirm if this is true.
 

stevep

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Oct 23, 2004
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St. Charles, IL USA
To go with the diagram Jeff posted:

There are three pairs of connectors in play here. The ECU connectors, the Power Transistor connector, and the Coil connector.

ECU Pin 54 has a Yellow wire that runs to pin 7 on the power transistor, the power transistor output for that same input signal is the Yellow/Green wire running from pin 8 on the power transistor to pin 2 on the coil connector. This coil goes to cylinders 1 and 4.

ECU Pin 55 has a Yellow/Red wire that runs to pin 2 on the power transistor, the power transistor output for that same input signal is the Yellow/Black wire running from pin 1 on the power transistor to pin 1 on the coil connector. This coil goes to cylinders 2 and 3.

That's how it should be wired.

You can swap plug wires on a coil, so either 4 and 1 or 1 and 4 is fine but you can't mix wires from different coils. 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 is wrong.
 

Quoting vtecds1:
I found this online. .

It says that it's the firing order for a 2g(95). It doesn't seem right but that's the same firing order as my car. Can someone confirm if this is true.



That diagram isn't saying the firing order is 3-2-1-4, its just listing which cylinders are fired by which coil.
All DSM turbos have a 1-3-4-2 firing order.
 

stevep

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St. Charles, IL USA
And many people confuse the firing order with the order of the plug wires on the coils.
The first is part of the 4 cylinder crank design the second by the design of our of a wasted spark ignition system.
 

grocery_getter

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Jun 20, 2004
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Kent - industrial suburbs of Seattle, WA
Quoting MadBeachDSM:
The second diagram from the OP makes sense, why it will only run that way, is what doesn't make sense.

In a wasted spark system, and the way the stock ignition system works, and considering piston position and firing order, cylinders 1 and 3 fire at the same time and 2 and 4 fire at the same time. So essentially, you could switch the plug wires between 1 and 3 (or 2 and 4), or both at the coil packs, and see no difference, no better and no worse.

As mentioned above, there must be a weak connection somewhere provided the wiring is correct. Although it is a mess, double check the wiring with the FSM diagram keydiver posted and join the connections the correct way with solder and quality heat shrink, and all should be well.



Just to correct, 1 and 4 comes off one coil and fire together, 2 and 3 comes off the other coil and fire off together. The second diagram can not be right.
 

vtecds1

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Thanks fellas. I`m going to check the wiring from the ECU first to see if there is any loose ends or if the wires have been altered. From there I`m going to check the power transistor wires. The plug from there to the coil pack was hacked and just crimped so I`m going to have to redo some of it. All I`m waiting for is a working coil pack from someone local then I can try to turn the car over. Hate to beat a dead horse...but if the primary test shows 1.3 or 1.7 ohms on the pack, it means that it`s no good, right? I know it`s suppose to be in the .7-.9 ohm range, but one of the coils was over it and was still firing good. But then again...I was breaking up at higher rpms before I ran into this dilemma.
 

stevep

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Where are you measuring?

If you happen to measure by accident both coils in series that would be the resulting resistance.
If you just measure at the two posts on the bottom of each coil do you get the same reading?
 

vtecds1

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This is the test I did...Both coilpacks( my own and Dougs JDM) had the same reading. He gave me the JDM one because it was breaking at higher rpms. But he said it would idle ok.
I`ve measured it numerous times hoping the numbers will change, but no luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


 
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vtecds1

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Yahtzee!!! After soldering all the wires that were crimped, I was looking at all the wires thoroughly and found the coil pack plug. The "genius" PO decided to zip tie it next to the ac plug. I have no clue why he didn't just put it back to stock. Instead he went to all the trouble of stripping and crimping the wires. Unfortunately, this just solves one of my problems. I still need a tested coil pack to try out.


 
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vtecds1

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I went through 5 coil packs and none worked except 1 from a Hyundai Sonata. 1 of the packs tested .9 in the primary but the other pack tested 1.3ohm. So I passed up on it. Now, I `m leaning towards a brand new one or a MSD pack that OHB had suggested before. I was doing a little research on the web and found out that some people have been using the Hyundai Sonata coilpack(95-97) as a replacement and seems to work for them. Looks the same, but I dont know if the specs are different(voltage wise). If it is the same, it is about 60% cheaper than a DSM coil pack. Anyone ever try one from a Hyundai?

advanced auto

napa

autozone
 

vtecds1

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Got one from OHB and installed it yesterday. The car finally runs good...just have to break it in now. Once again, thanks for all that responded to my thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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