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Autocross Surprise

324vr4

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Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,240
Location
Bozeman, Montana
I just purchased a 1992 vr4 for autocross purposes and I'm wondering how these vr4s do in such competitions?! I love the awd burnouts and like how no one knows what this car is, but I want a super handling vr4; not caring too much about comfort but more for performance. I read a lot about the Evo8 suspension upgrade but I'm not sure if that's the best setup. Are subframe connectors available or have they not been developed yet?! Yes this a newbie post but I can't learn unless I ask...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
-LIEB-
 

1st try the SEARCH button on this site. There's lots of good info under "suspension" or "coilovers" or "Whiteline" or "Hotbits."

GVR4's aren't very successful as parking lot autocrossers. DSM's do better 'cause of their shorter wheelbase and lighter weight. You need limited slips for both front and rear diffs. Plus a 4-bolt rear-end to handle the application of power. Once you start modifying, you'll be up against stiff competition: Subie STi, Evos, M3s, and really fast modded DSMs. Check the classification rules in your area.

See the AWD Diff Tech section here: DSM Autocross
 
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It depends on how competitive you want to be (gotta win, or just have fun), at what level (local, divisional, or national), with what organization (SCCA, NASA), and at what budget (got a family to support on one income versus you just won the Powerball). I do autocross mine and have modded it heavily for that purpose, and locally am very competitive. (I just set FTD last Sunday though that was a fluke of the weather. I'm always in the hunt for a class win and I've finished second for the season overall in a very competitive Street Mod class 3 yrs in a row. But when the big boys who run Nationally come in from out of town, I can't really touch them.) So I think I can speak on this.

First, you will not be competitive for some time regardless of what you drive until you learn to autocross. The number one piece of speed equipment is the driver. Unless you have Michael Schumacher in your genes, it will take at least a couple years to learn how to read the course, find the right line, not go too fast in the slow parts and too slow in the fast parts, learn car set up, and so on. Which is a good thing because it will take that long to make the mods you need.

Stock, car is not competitive unless you run against hacks and beaters. Sorry but it's true. It weighs too much, understeers relentlessly, and will be classed against more nimble vehicles. But you may as well run stock while you learn to drive, unless you have been doing this already in other cars.

You will want to get into a class that allows some level of preparation in order to unlock some of the car's potential, including modified boost control and bolt-on suspension. Candidates include Street Prepared (used to not allow boost control but I think that has changed), and Street Touring Unlimited (be prepared to run against Evos and STIs). The ultimate for the VR4 is Street Modified. Anything goes so long as the engine is badged the same as original, the suspension attaches to the original holes, metal panels that contain glass are still metal, you do not cut or weld the frame or firewall, and the full interior is retained. The car can be competitive at this level locally if you are willing to spend a fair amount of dough. If you have national aspirations, leave the VR4 at home and pick a different car that weighs about 800 lb less because that is its principal disadvantage.

Get a copy of the rule book so you know what you can modify for a given class. One wrong mod can bump you up so that you are bringing a duck to a cock fight. In general you will need wider wheels, race tires (Hoosiers or Kumhos) unless you run a street tire class (note stock classes are not limited to street tires in SCCA), much stiffer springs, adjustable shocks, lots more negative camber up front (camber plates or bolts), poly bushings, much heavier rear swaybar, and an alignment. Disconnecting and removing the rear steer is worthwhile. You will want to move the battery to the trunk and get a CF hood to take weight off the front. A heavy duty clutch for launches is a must, as the stock clutch will be toast after one season. A rear limited slip diff is a huge asset. Start with Eclipse LSDs and after you wear out a couple of those you'll bite the bullet and get a mechanical unit (Kaaz). Do whatever you want to the motor as allowed per class. Bigger intercooler and exhaust for sure, electronic boost controller, the usual. Stay away from big turbos that build boost at 4000 RPM. What you need is torque to dig out of corners and good mid-range throttle response for the many transitions, so smaller turbos are better. Or ball bearing turbos if you have the dough. Race seat and harness will be helpful if you are generating high cornering forces, but in a pinch a baby seat clip on the lap belt and a utility strap across the upper chest can do a decent job of holding you in place while you fling it.

There is just a whole lot more if you want to keep pursuing it. Just realize that driver talent is a huge part of the success equation, and at the end of the day the VR4 is not necessarily an optimal choice. But it can be a lot of fun and a real attention-getter especially if you get it to go faster than anyone expects. And have fun. Nothing ruins a good time racing as taking it too seriously.

Mike R.
 

CP

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Aug 30, 2004
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West Simsbury, CT
I agree with everything that's been said. If you want a good autocross-only car, sell the VR4 now and get something MUCH lighter, like a MK1/2 GTI, older Civic hatchback, some smaller old Nissans, etc. As was mentioned, the VR4 is a heavy pig that understeers like no tomorrow, has a very soft stock suspension, and a sloppy stock shifter. You can tune all these tendencies out, but it costs thousands of dollars to do it correctly.

For an all-around daily driver that can handle snow, rain, gravel, and city commuting, with some autox and track events mixed in, I think it does an adequate job. That's what I use mine for. But it's a never ending project that requires $$$ to be spent constantly. It's very labor-intensive to maintain these cars, which at 16 years of age, tend to need lots of stock parts replaced right around now.

In other words, if you want a car that's competitive at autocrosses, sell the VR4 or be prepared to spend lots of cash trying to make it competitive. Personally I'd say sell it, and find yourself an old 200SX, MX-3, GTI, Miata, or similar small and light car.
 

well i autocrossed and won my first time, i wouldve gotten an even better time but i needed some more tire pressure to handle the cornering. beat a highly modified nx2000 for the win. dont be fooled so much of autocross is the driver, but im not saying it doesnt help to modify......
 

324vr4

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Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
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Location
Bozeman, Montana
Well, first off, I plan on stich-welding all the seams along with removing as much weight as possible ...I see potential in this little beast and hope to post winning pictures proving the potential! Thanks for all the advice and information on this subject...If anyone has any more by all means share!

-LIEB- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 

jepherz

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Aug 8, 2004
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7,878
Location
KC, Missouri
I think you need to consider the fact that these cars will NEVER be as light as a DSM or similar car. If you remove everything you can, you could still remove all the same from a DSM and end up lighter. If you're going for raw performance, these probably aren't the best cars.
 

Does this answer your question
fling.gif
?

 

324vr4

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
1,240
Location
Bozeman, Montana
Ha ha ha, yeah it looks challanging! Well, I guess I can dream than...I guess if that's not a good route how bout 1/4 mile route for the vr? What's a good recipe for getting into the 12s?!
 

91GVR4

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Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
432
Location
Wasilla, AK
Like the others have said, AutoX is great fun in any car. But for winning the VR4 is not the car to have. I started AutoX in my stock '90 talon. It was a great car that was quite fast in stock class and won many times in our local season. But then I desided to enter a Divisonal SCCA race. WOW, that was humbling. I ran against about 15 other stock cars, most of which were DSM. I came in dead last. It just went to show that most of difference in AutoX have to do with the drivers.
I still race my VR4 however it has lots of mods. Hotbits, swaybars, 17" wheels, Garrett trubo, ect. It still is heavier, but now it at least handles well. Of course the advantage of this car is that I can bring the wife and kids to the events with me in the same car and pick up food on the way home. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Quote:
In other words, if you want a car that's competitive at autocrosses, sell the VR4 or be prepared to spend lots of cash trying to make it competitive. Personally I'd say sell it



I thought you just had a race? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Or, is that why you're pissed off? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
 

CP

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Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
8,938
Location
West Simsbury, CT
I'm not taking the car to competitive events and trying to beat other cars. My events are classified as "high performance driver safety events (HPDE)." I've got an instructor riding along, and no timing is allowed. I didn't like autocrossing it, as my car didn't transition very well, and felt as heavy as it is...at least last summer that was the case. I've made some more suspension changes, but autocrossing isn't my thing. Too much standing around compared to seat time.

My event this week was rained out b/c NHIS was flooded. It's being rescheduled for early September sometime. It may have been a blessing in disguise, as we're doing the timing belt, water pump, balance shaft removal, and external oil cooler stuff next weekend. I hope to track down that boost leak while the engine is out of the car. It was coming from somewhere around/behind the intake manifold, but I can't locate it. Then I've got Lime Rock in mid-June, and a bunch of others after that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just put the SAFC in last night, and the car runs like azz after a preliminary tune, so I need some time to play around with that as well. I have no experience with it, and was following some write-ups that I found. I put everything back to 0 when I got to work this morning, as the car was hesitating while cruising to work and I didn't like that.
 
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