91 galant gsx. What should I do?

I'll start from the beginning. I traded a Lexus Sc300 for what I was told was a galant gsx with a vr4 swap. Well I'm no dsm wiz so I assumed it was. Even when looking at the engine I couldn't tell it was a non turbo motor. Anyways I made the trade. Car ran pretty good minus a slight boost leak at the J-pipe, the gas pedal had a ton of play and some rattling near the timing cover. Got the car home and drove it for 2 months until the timing jumped and well you know what happened. Had a local shop do the timing, fix the head and figure out why the pedal had so much play. Thats when I was told it was an n/a motor. Thats when it all made sense. The guy I got it from rigged the throttle cable so that I could never reach WOT. Now that the timing was fixed, and the head was repaired and the throttle cable was properly adjusted it ran like sh*t. Of course I was pissed. Drove the car from kentucky to northern michigan and parked it. Bought a cheap vw and drove it home. Car has been sitting up north since april. I'm looking at towing the car home around xmas time but I have some questions.
1. Does the Galant GSX have a 6 bolt motor and 4 bolt rear end?
2. Are the transmissions different?
3. Can I use my fresh non turbo head on a turbo block?
4. Can I just swap out the injectors and ecu? I already have fresh 450's to do so.

Sorry for the long post.

Pics of car:

 

[rdomeck]

Buy one that is done.....That simple. Sell this one for what you can get out of it and buy a finished one, or as close to finished as you can afford! I run a fabrication/restoration business and I have seen so many people put so much money into a car just because they have the car. You will be so much happier and have a car that will be worth something if you ever plan to sell it!

 

[cheekychimp]

We didn't get the GGSX over here so hopefully some of the guys over there will chime on on specifications for the car in stock form. However I would say if the car has been modified, don't assume that anything on it is stock which to a certain extent makes many of your questions irrelevant. You are going to have to get under the car and check stuff to be sure.

Now that said, I wouldn't panic. Yes you may have been led astray and you may be justifiably pissed off at this point, but in fact you may well have got off lucky. If your engine was running right and you had decided to turn up the boost you might easily have destroyed it. As things stand, it sounds as if you can still turn this around. Which brings me to two questions. What did the shop discover about this engine to bring them to the conclusion it is NA and when you say it runs like sh*t, what are the symptoms exactly?

Many people do convert NA 4G63 engines to turbo. There are a number of things that need to be done and the omission of some will cause running problems but your most critical issue is that the pistons will be too high compression leading to the possibility of detonation if you add in too much boost and many components may not be strong enough to take the abuse if that happens. Your block on the other hand should be fine if you swap over internals. I also believe you need a knock sensor and that the NA engine doesn't come with one. The engine harness is different so whilst you can 'doctor' it, you cannot necessarily just swap in a turbo ECU. If that has been done however and is the cause of the running issues then you might quite possibly be able to swap in an NA ECU and injectors but only if you remove the whole turbo setup of course.

Stock GGSX transmission is weaker and higher geared than the turbo boxes. The GGSX is a different ratio to the DSM/VR4 as well, so if you start swapping transmissions be careful. You will have to replace both the front and rear if you go to a turbo transmission. I 'think' the transfer case is the same but please check!

Essentially, I would price up the cost of a turbo short block, engine harness and ECU then compare that against the cost of swapping in turbo rods and pistons, knock sensor, turbo engine harness and ECU.

A DOHC NA head should work on a turbo short block, but you will need to check if your cams are suitable. Some NA cams are supposedly an 'upgrade' but it really depends on the specs.

In order for us to help you more we really need to know what is currently on the car in terms of block, head, engine harness, ECU etc. I appreciate you may not know but you need to determine this before we can make suggestions on the best way forward. I'm sorry that you got tricked, but as stated before, if there is no engine damage at this stage, I think the situation is salvageable but the cost will depend very much on what you currently have on the car to work with.

Edit: For what it is worth, the engine bay doesn't appear to be a complete hack job. At least he recirculated the BOV etc. Again what is actually wrong with the car at present?

 

[LIV4PSI]

Quoting stackpoole:

1. Does the Galant GSX have a 6 bolt motor and 4 bolt rear end?
2. Are the transmissions different?
3. Can I use my fresh non turbo head on a turbo block?
4. Can I just swap out the injectors and ecu? I already have fresh 450's to do so.




1. Yes it has a 6 bolt. No it does not have a 4 bolt. But neither does any VR4 or 91 DSM.
2. I don't know if they are different, but the VR4 isn't great anyways so I'm sure that's a moot point.
3. Yes, you can use you non turbo head. The cams are different, but you can use it.
4. You can swap them, a knock sensor will need to be wired up, possibly some other small things, Nothing major

 

[James]

How do you know it's a nt motor?

 

[rdomeck]

The blocks are the same except for the oil squirters pointing up at the pistons.....And the pistons would be lower compression!

 

Thanks for the quick responses! I guess I should've stated that while trying to sell the galant on a website called Mautofied, the original owner or at least the guy who had it before the guy I traded for said it was the stock motor with the turbo parts from a 1g talon. He also said that the car had the appropriate injectors and ecu before he got rid of it. So who's telling what the guy I got it from did to the car. Right now it has 260cc injectors or something very close. They have hyundai tagged on them. Which I may be mistaken but there are some hyundais that run non turbo 4g63's. I haven't confirmed if the ecu is in fact the factory galant or if it was swapped. I won't be able to verify until I get the car here. It also has a front mount intercooler, and what looks like a turbo maf. Currently when the car hits any amount of boost it will buck. I installed a boost gauge before the timing jumped and it read stock boost, but then again I could never hit WOT so i'm sure that had some effects on how the car ran. Maybe the guy I got the car from was that crafty and set the car up to run like that. I dont know. I'm definitely going to rule out selling it and buying a vr4. I also don't plan to race or modify the car to any extent. I just wanna drive it. So whatever needs to be done to do so reliably will work.

 

Here's another thought. Although it wouldn't be fast. What if I just convert it back to non turbo? What would be needed besides a non turbo header? Could I just simply install an aftermarket header and exhaust and go?

 

[fuel]

Quoting LIV4PSI:
Quoting stackpoole:

1. Does the Galant GSX have a 6 bolt motor and 4 bolt rear end?
2. Are the transmissions different?
3. Can I use my fresh non turbo head on a turbo block?
4. Can I just swap out the injectors and ecu? I already have fresh 450's to do so.




1. Yes it has a 6 bolt. No it does not have a 4 bolt. But neither does any VR4 or 91 DSM.
2. I don't know if they are different, but the VR4 isn't great anyways so I'm sure that's a moot point.
3. Yes, you can use you non turbo head. The cams are different, but you can use it.
4. You can swap them, a knock sensor will need to be wired up, possibly some other small things, Nothing major



Not true on 1. You should say that no USDM VR-4 has a 4 bolt rear. My '91 VR-4 certainly had a 4 bolt rear (and viscous LSD) from factory.

 

[LIV4PSI]

He lives in America. This is a forum based around USDM cars. You sir, are splitting hairs.

 

[rdomeck]

I'm sure this will not be received well, but have you visited the cars for sale section lately? Write down the money you will spend on this car in parts and you will see it does not make a lot of sense. The tow bill alone will cost you a bunch.

I just hate to see anyone put so much money into a car that they are very unhappy every time they drive it!

Just adding up the money in parts for the engine to either make it were it can handle being boosted or just disassembly to find out what's in it will be expensive......

I have some recommendations for shops in Louisville if you would like.

Unless this is a car that your father bought new and you have this great attachment to it, just move on to one you can enjoy now and will be worth selling should you ever have to.

 

[citymunky]

Quoting stackpoole:
Thanks for the quick responses! I guess I should've stated that while trying to sell the galant on a website called Mautofied, the original owner or at least the guy who had it before the guy I traded for said it was the stock motor with the turbo parts from a 1g talon. He also said that the car had the appropriate injectors and ecu before he got rid of it. So who's telling what the guy I got it from did to the car. Right now it has 260cc injectors or something very close. They have hyundai tagged on them. Which I may be mistaken but there are some hyundais that run non turbo 4g63's. I haven't confirmed if the ecu is in fact the factory galant or if it was swapped. I won't be able to verify until I get the car here. It also has a front mount intercooler, and what looks like a turbo maf. Currently when the car hits any amount of boost it will buck. I installed a boost gauge before the timing jumped and it read stock boost, but then again I could never hit WOT so i'm sure that had some effects on how the car ran. Maybe the guy I got the car from was that crafty and set the car up to run like that. I dont know. I'm definitely going to rule out selling it and buying a vr4. I also don't plan to race or modify the car to any extent. I just wanna drive it. So whatever needs to be done to do so reliably will work.



260cc injectors will cause the bucking during boost, the engine is not getting the fuel it needs.

 

[cheekychimp]

Quoting rdomeck:
I'm sure this will not be received well, but have you visited the cars for sale section lately? Write down the money you will spend on this car in parts and you will see it does not make a lot of sense. The tow bill alone will cost you a bunch.

I just hate to see anyone put so much money into a car that they are very unhappy every time they drive it!

Just adding up the money in parts for the engine to either make it were it can handle being boosted or just disassembly to find out what's in it will be expensive......

I have some recommendations for shops in Louisville if you would like.

Unless this is a car that your father bought new and you have this great attachment to it, just move on to one you can enjoy now and will be worth selling should you ever have to.



I don't know that it is necessarily that the OP doesn't like the advice but probably some of the alternatives are equally impractical. It very likely isn't going to be easy selling the car from a distance unless he has someone helping him and if it is running badly he will probably be looking at taking a hit before he even gets started on looking for another vehicle. Consequently he may need to get the car towed anyway. How cost effective repairs are going to be over selling this car and starting over is highly dependent upon what the OP subsequently discovers about the car.

As citymunky has stated the poor running and bucking issue is highly likely to be a result of the 260 cc injectors. Disassembling the motor to rectify problems could prove costly but dropping the oil pan and removing the head to check the pistons and rods might possibly be something the OP and/or some of his friends can handle.

To the OP. BEFORE you start driving the car and start causing possible irreparable damage, can you tell us (or find out) the following: -

(i) What ECU is in the car? If you don't know see if it has a sticker on with the S/No. We can help you in identifying the ECU.
(ii) What injectors are in the car? You said 260 cc but please confirm, those are FAR TOO SMALL for a turbo application.
(iii) What did the previous shop say about the engine exactly? How did they identify it as NA? (This may save you the trouble of dis-assembly!)
(iv) What wiring harness is in the car and does the engine have a knock sensor?

If you can supply us with the above information we can tell you very likely if you need a new ECU and/or which injectors you need to compliment your ECU. we will also hopefully be able to tell you if the engine is ready for boost or not and be able to give you some idea of the easiest/cheapest option to get the car running i.e. going ahead with the turbo route or putting it back to NA.

In addition, what is this car worth to you? What do you have into it so far? (i.e. what was the value of the car you traded, any cash on either side etc?) You don't need to share that information but it will help to decide which route is going to be most cost effective. Other considerations might be the condition of the rest of the vehicle. Cleanliness, any rust on the body, is the exterior and interior in good shape etc? If it is a good shell and everything works then it may be worth putting stuff right because you may still end up with a better car (especially if you are capable of doing the work yourself but are simply not familiar with this particular platform).

See what you can find out and post up, and we will try to help you make an informed decision even if it does boil down to cutting your losses and starting over.

Paul.

 

[Hondasi88]

Damn 260's you need an upgrade in the injector department...like cheeky said.

 

[89Mirageman]

I thought the GGSX had a knock sensor from the factory?

Honestly if you have to pay a mechanic to do the work you don't need this car or a GVR4/DSM. Or any older turbo car for that matter. I'm not saying that to be rude but it's true. These things will nickel and dime you, add in labor and a cheap car doesn't stay cheap for long.

Maybe pick up another DD if you don't have one already and use ths GGSX to practice on. If you have the space, time and the tools you can get it going. Get some friends over and buy some pizza, take some pics while tearing it down and label everything really well. Post up here if you run into a problem and someone will walk you through it.

 

[transparentdsm]

^ +1 its a lot of work to maintain it, unless you have the money to spend or if you like to work on cars or really want to work on a car.

 

[LIV4PSI]

Quoting 89Mirageman:
I thought the GGSX had a knock sensor from the factory?




James has a GGSX, I have heard him mention that a knock sensor had to be wired in. That was what I based my statement on. I definitely could be wrong.

 

[James]

My knock sensor was wired in by the previous owner. The previous owner was an idiot so take that for what it's worth haha.

 

[LIV4PSI]

I was just saying that the previous owner wouldn't of had to wire one in, if the stock wiring accommodated one.

I don't know much about GGSXs though, I wanted a badge number! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[James]

Yea the wiring for mine doesn't follow any of the stock wiring loom. Just runs right through the firewall and into the ECU.

Still doesn't really answer if its really a turbo or NT motor in the car. I'm in the same boat as him. Waiting for a reason to drop the pan and look for squirters.

If I was op I would buy stock 450cc injectors and see what happens. They're like $10 a piece used.