4ws to keep or delete with 4 bolt

[bmxr152]

Okay so i got a mint 4 bolt rear end from pick n pull for 44$. Im having a hard time making up my mind on swaping the rear diff into my 4ws rear housing or just swapping the whole 4 bolt diff into the vr4. Currently my 3 bolt diff is a little noisy but i have absolutely no leaks with the 4ws system. I put my car on the lift at work and had my friend watch and i only got the rear wheels to turn was when i fully locked the wheel. Im not sure if it needs a load or not but it dis not seem to work properly. Anyways what would you guys do. Swap over the 4 bolt parts and rebuild the diff or just swap over the whole 4 bolt diff?

 

[vr4play]

It depends if you like the 4 wheel steering or not. I hated mine so I ripped it all out and never looked back. The removing the 4 wheel steer and installing the active toe eliminator kit was one of the best mods I did for the handling of the car along with the evo rear diff upgrade. The car was super nervous with the 4 wheel steering and stiffer suspension. It was fine until that. When the car was all stock I loved the 4 wheel steer. You could change lanes like a champ. It got totally unpredictable once I stiffen everything up though. I'm going to say it's a preference thing. That and hope that the pinion bearings in your 3 bolt housing are still good.

 

[bmxr152]

Well i have not driven one without so i Dont know. I know my talon felt more predictable though. Did you leave the rack hooked up for extra support to the trailing arms? Also does anyone know where to get cv boots for rear 4 bolt axles?

 

[transparentdsm]

jnz should have them boots. i personally love 4ws and have had both with and without 4ws. it depends on the demands you will be making with the car. for me its simple because its a 4 door car its not a race car for me, its a fun car to drive as often as possible and when your going around the turns here its fun. if i wanted a solid rear end id buy a dsm and drive that. i got my galant bc of the 4ws and i like it. i really want to do what your thinking of doing and get a 4 bolt rear and put the internals inside my 4ws housing. its a little bit of work, but worth it to me, plus while all is apart you can freshin up all the lines and hoses for the 4ws and never have to worry about it failing.

 

[raptorWagon]

Why not just keep 4WS with 4 bolt?
4WS with 4 Bolt

 

[theevozero]

I'm gonna do this also. Been running a 4 bolt since I've had the car. Right now, i'm still trying to source all the 4ws parts, since mine was deleted prior to me purchasing the car. All I need are the 4ws rear hard lines and I think I'll need the sway bar. I'm gonna make an attempt to control the 4ws with the AEM. I will probably be using a few electronic spool valves, plumbing, relays and lots of wiring. If I can't get the AEM to play nice, I will probably just use a knob to control the amount of rear wheel assist.

 

[raptorWagon]

You do realize the 4WS only activates over 30mph and only adjusts 1.5 degrees of toe from the factory right?

 

[Wizardawd]

Agreed. I eliminated it because it was rotted all to hell. Parts are next to impossible to source and usually in poor shape. And as was mentioned, it was really more of a gimmick anyways.

Wiz

 

[theevozero]

I just wanna know what its like to begin with. I've only owned 1 galant vr4 and it never had it since I've owned it. I would like to drive it or another one with it to see how I like it. I drove my girlfriends galant(which has it) and don't recall noticing anything out of the ordinary. She says it make it feel like the back wants to slide out when turning. Another friend of mine says it feels "twitchy" on the highway.

 

[raptorWagon]

Well, it creates understeer, the rear wheels turn in the direction of the front wheels attempting to keep the car straight in a turn.

Many will get rid of it as well for when used in Autocross as it makes the car unpredictable at low speeds.
"Active Toe in" on a DSM is pretty much just Passive 4WS. All the 4WS on a GVR4 does is hydraulically force the motion.

 

[theevozero]

Uses the flex of the trailing arm bushing to move the rear wheels. Yea, it does seem rather archaic.

 

[bmxr152]

Yes i know that. I was doing at least 50mph. It seemed weird that i had to pretty much lock the steering



Quoting raptorreed:
You do realize the 4WS only activates over 30mph and only adjusts 1.5 degrees of toe from the factory right?

 

[raptorWagon]

Lol I was talking to theevozero in reference to his post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[DSSA]

Quoting theevozero:
I drove my girlfriends galant(which has it) and don't recall noticing anything out of the ordinary. She says it make it feel like the back wants to slide out when turning. Another friend of mine says it feels "twitchy" on the highway.



One of mine did the same thing.

Some I didn't notice it at all.

Some I got rid of it immediately.

But that one scared the crap out of me at times even doing 75 on the interstate around long sweepers. That car joined the "I got rid of it" club shortly after that.

 

[theevozero]

Quoting raptorreed:
Well, it creates understeer, the rear wheels turn in the direction of the front wheels attempting to keep the car straight in a turn.

Many will get rid of it as well for when used in Autocross as it makes the car unpredictable at low speeds.
"Active Toe in" on a DSM is pretty much just Passive 4WS. All the 4WS on a GVR4 does is hydraulically force the motion.



The more I read, the more I think I'm better off without it. But, I am still not the type a person to believe everything I'm told. I was thinking of trying something different with it anyway.

 

[toybreaker]

I've always wondered about one aspect of this system.


The "active toe" bushing at the front of the trailing arm of a dsm is designed to give a little and allow the arm to pivot around the bolt in the trailing arm as the suspension is loaded laterally

... (it's actually passive toe, if one wanted to be pedantic /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

If I understand the system correctly, the rear of the trailing arms will deflect in the direction of the applied force, proprtional to the force applied

... not speed sensitive, lateral load sensitive only ...

... more lateral load = more toe change



On the vr4, same that bushing is present, (hell it's pretty much the same damn arm)

On paper, it's simple , the 4ws system on the vr4 "works" by forcing the front of the arms around the pivotbolt in the arm housing.

... speed sensitive, (pump driven off the rear pumpkin/spool valve that references the front rack >no electronics of any kind)) and only effectively "active" at speeds above ~30mph (ish)


It makes me wonder if the arms of the vr4 are restrained from moving much (if at all) in response to lateral loads in the toe plane by the attatchment of the rear rack? when the system is not active.

... wouldn;t the rack stabilise the front of the arm, at least somewhat?



put plainly, would leaving the rack in situ, but isolating it hydraulically (no pump/lines) give a rear suspension that is "effectively" locked out of passive steer?



A poor mans passive steer delete, without all the compromises/ noise / vibration / harshness of a welded front bushing.


dunno, just something I always wondered about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif