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#139 goal accomplished: broke into the 10's

NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
Quoting Dbossman:
Nice. Congrats! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif
So what were you running the 14b in, and what was your best pass?



The 14B efforts were back in 2004 in a 1g AWD DSM. (a yellow 90).
It went
11.9 @ 111 in "stock appearing" legal trim for the Shootout race. Stock sidemount ic, stock ic pipes, 14b, 1g maf. no nitrous
11.4 @ 118 with a wet nitrous kit. 3080lb total weight.
At the time, we weren't really super serious about setting any record or getting the best ET possible with a 14b as the only restriction. We were putting a car together either for a budget race where you can only spend $2004, or setting the car up to race in the stock appearing class at the shootout. Both situations obviously have much more restriction on performance than "14b only". The GRM race the car had to autox and carshow. The stock appearing class bar's fmic, external wastegates, nitrous, intake manifolds, and you have to use a 1g maf. We were also running on a junkyard motor that pushed coolant from day 1. The motor was so wasted, after the 11.4s the HG was so beat the car wouldn't even run to drive on trailer. There was no budget for machine work to mill the head flat so we just took a head that was literally laying in the grass with rusty valvetrain...swapped in clean rockers and bolted it down with a stock HG. The sort of thing you do when you only need the engine to run for about 20 passes and if it blows up...who cares, we were just having fun.

Point being that even though the 11.4 was the 14b record for a while, it was a happy accident. We at no time had anything close to a car setup with intent to go as fast as possible with the stock turbo. And at that time, noone besides me and Leon Reitman had even cared to try and run fast on a 14b just for bragging rights.

Then Joe Bucci built a crazy 1g fwd laser and went absolutely bonkers with weight loss. He got his 14b car down to like 2100lb with driver, and smoked me: 10.86 on motor/10.61 with nitrous. That was a car built for a serious purpose.

So knowing what I know 5 years later, Im pretty confident I can beat that FWD car. I'm going to have to make up for the weight difference with better power and better 60'. His best runs were low 1.6 short times, I can go mid 1.4s. I don't believe Joe really leaned hard on his nitrous setup, I'd be really pushing the spray and tailoring the setup around nitrous.

This was the car: (pic from GRM magazine who puts on the $2000 challenge race)
96964014_zabak-M.jpg


you can tell from the pic it wasn't a serious effort: street wheels, ground effects, mirrors, steel hood. hahaha streetcar stuff. Getting the 14b and 16g records these days requires a full out effort on weight loss. I think a 1gawd will need to be less than 2300lb and go 1.400 to beat Bucci's 10.86 14b/no nitrous run.
 
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NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
Quoting turbowop:
Quoting NateCrisman:


It's what being a DSMer at heart is all about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif



For what it's worth, I paid $700 for my FP3052 and $300 for my Evo3 16g. Good deals out there to be had for sure.



Totally. I think you have to be on some serious crack to pay new prices for most dsm parts when just about anything other than the "latest and greatest" race parts are often available for just about half the price of new.
 

NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
Quoting 3of1000:
Quoting NateCrisman:
I haven't seen any rollbar installed in a GVR4 that didn't have the main hoop going right through the open foot space of the rear passenger door. The back seats need to be totally accessible otherwise the car is no more useful than a DSM. Plus If I was going to do a rollbar, it would be stupid to not do a full halo and certified 9 second cage. The car can already go mid 10's and if I put the money into the rollbar, I would for sure upgrade the few engine parts needed to knock down some 9's. My car has sunroof so that leaves even less room for the roof halo to not interfere with.

The rollbar opens the floodgates to more engine mods, less street use, less reliability, empty pockets, and a GVR4 that sits in the driveway for 13 days in a row and goes to the track once every other week. I just don't even want to go down that avenue anymore with this car.



True, you would need more than a mild cage, I am retarded.

FWIW the main hoop in my car blocks a bit of foot room but one can still climb in the car and sit in an actual upright comfortable seated position, something that most adults cannot or will not attempt to do in a dsm.



Any interest in showing me some detailed pics of your rollbar setup? I suppose I could be convinced to cage #139 and move the 2010 goal to 9.99
 

Nate

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
944
Location
Worcester, Pa
Search for some old pics of the maroon car. Cage doesn't interfere with the rear leg room at all.

Wanna buy a chassis with a cage? Won't be cheap, though...
 

atc250r

Staff member
Joined
Sep 11, 2003
Messages
13,235
Location
Orange County, NY
I don't know if you ever saw it in person but 3of1000 has Harry's old car. I'm sure there's a ton of pics online, I know Harry has a bunch of them on a photo site but I can't remember which one. My biggest concern with a caged street car is the crushing blows it will deliver to your skull if you're ever in an accident on the street unless you want to ride around with a helmet on all the time.

John
 

NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
Nate: pics would be awesome..I'll hunt around the net if you don't have any handy. Selling that maroon car? Remember where and how much the bar cost?

John: that's for sure something to consider. Especially since it's a sunroof car and doesn't have much headroom to begin with, so the bar will be closer to heads.
 

I have just put in a chromoly 6 point in my car. It clears the back seats and is tucked in tight. We are doing them for $800 installed i will post up some pics tomorrow.I thought about doing a full cage,but with the times i will run i feel safe with just the 6 point plus it saves me weight. With all the tracks out there losing their NHRA license or just because the cannot afford it allows people to run a lot faster without people spending $3000 on a cage. I don't think this is too good of an idea cause i see people like Buschur running 9.0 @160mph in their Evos with no cage and no crash beams but for me personally a 6 point roll bar is good enough and if i get worried i can always add on.
 

Hey nate just put a roll cage on it and keep going. Make some of us look for inspiration on what to do with our cars and make them run.
 

Mark

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
2,515
Location
Naperville, IL
Its really a hard decision. I am in the same boat. DD the car a lot and need a cage.. Which to do? I still havent figured it out and im sure nate is thinking the same way.
 

i fought with the same decision. I said i am a good driver and i should be ok til i saw my friend get clipped at the track going 150mph by someone else who lost control. that made up my mind .Mark you close to me you should come look at my roll bar
 
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Quoting NateCrisman:
Quoting 3of1000:
Quoting NateCrisman:
I haven't seen any rollbar installed in a GVR4 that didn't have the main hoop going right through the open foot space of the rear passenger door. The back seats need to be totally accessible otherwise the car is no more useful than a DSM. Plus If I was going to do a rollbar, it would be stupid to not do a full halo and certified 9 second cage. The car can already go mid 10's and if I put the money into the rollbar, I would for sure upgrade the few engine parts needed to knock down some 9's. My car has sunroof so that leaves even less room for the roof halo to not interfere with.

The rollbar opens the floodgates to more engine mods, less street use, less reliability, empty pockets, and a GVR4 that sits in the driveway for 13 days in a row and goes to the track once every other week. I just don't even want to go down that avenue anymore with this car.



True, you would need more than a mild cage, I am retarded.

FWIW the main hoop in my car blocks a bit of foot room but one can still climb in the car and sit in an actual upright comfortable seated position, something that most adults cannot or will not attempt to do in a dsm.



Any interest in showing me some detailed pics of your rollbar setup? I suppose I could be convinced to cage #139 and move the 2010 goal to 9.99



The only downfall to the cage so far that I can see is the main hoop blocks the rear occupants door handle, so anyone sitting back there must be let out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif That may have been the trade off to still having ease of rear ingress/egress because if you move the bar back to not block the door handle then it would make ingress/egress way more difficult, if impossible to anyone but a contortionist or a 5 year old. I dunno but the way it is doesn't bother me, it just looks funny letting people out. To eliminate possible crushing blows to my skull (or other body parts) on the bars I am going to pad them.

Having said that, you are right though if you are already clicking off tens and you don't plan to race the car competitively then a mild cage is pointless, unless you just want a bit of added safety which is why I like it.

Here are a few pictures that I snapped when I got the car.




 

NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
I'm really thinking it over, it's not a decision that I HAVE to make right now. Tracks don't open again till March. I don't have all the parts to go back to 16g right now anyway, so I guess Im just going to pull the motor, swap all the same parts onto a different shortblock and put it back together. (sadly with a stock flywheel I guess, unless I can find a super cheap fidanze wheel before it goes back together (would hate to lose the biggest chunk of rotating weight loss). Basically fix up some of my little naggy problems, a couple leaks, ext. and keep the car as is.

Going to do a forward facing oil filter housing to eliminate the cooler (the 3.5" downpipe is so big, it won't allow the stock oil filter to unthread enough to change the oil without removing the DP..dumb).
Swapping 3.0GM to an AEM 3.5bar map sensor.
I might swap the SC5031 for a SC6152 but I'm not 100% sure I want to give up any spool and powerband. I kind of have the option to do it for free: buy the 6152 & sell my 5031 for same price. 60+lb/min turbo vs ~48lb/min pretty big difference.

Come Feb/March after driving it around this winter a bit, then I can make a decision on having a rollbar put in. If so, I would assume my goal for 2010 would be 9.99 which a standard 6pt rollbar will sufice until it actually GOES 9.99. Then it's certified CAGE and likely a ton of other stuff (battery cutoff, parachute?, full fire suit, window net). So, I guess that's that. I'll look into chassis shops and see what I can find out.
 

NateCrisman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
2,054
Location
Blairstown, NJ
Update for the new year:

I have struck a deal to get my old 1g racecar back, so #139 is going to donate some "race" parts and become an everyday driver. (I really need one anyway, the PT Loser I'v been DD for a couple years is finally giving up the ghost with overheating issues). #139 got on the lift right after christmas, and I'v spent some time the last few days taking it back apart to swap the engine. #1 I had the broken trans bolt attachment ear. #2 last day at the track when the radiator popped, I filled it with water and it's sat like that since...and it froze solid popping out a rear block freeze plug. #3 HG was blown, but hey, stock HG taking enough cyl pressure to go 130+mph? no biggie.

Please don't mind the Iphone pic quality. my P&S camera that I'v been keeping in the shop was battery dead today. (Im sure 15*F doesn't help that)

Crusty mess from radiator exploding: rust and water residue is everywhere!
762593812_JJLE9-L.jpg
762594718_nHmju-L.jpg


HG burned through on Cyl #4 on the tranny side. This was the worst HG spot.
762557712_VS3Jo-XL.jpg


762558801_do7aG-L.jpg



So my plan is to move these parts onto the 1g:
[*]Longblock with HKS cams and the upgraded head. I'm going to get that ear welded back on, and while I don't trust it for an everyday car, hopefully it will hold together for a while if it's only making dragstrip passes?
[*] JMF intake manifold
[*] NOS nitrous kit.
[*] Hoosier tires & 16" wheels.
[*] clutchmasters flywheel.
[/list]
I'm going to prep another stock longblock to go in #139 with oem cams & intake manifold. Put the 17" street wheels/tires back on. Try and find another aluminum flywheel. The 50trim T3T4 setup will go back on as well as a normal 3" turboback exhaust. Since fixing the boost control issue, the car went 126mph on racegas last time out at 28psi. I'm thinking that stock cams and intake might pull 3mph out of the car, so Im still looking at a high/mid 11 second car. I bet it still will run in the 11's on pumpgas with 1.7 60's at 25psi, but I really don't plan on running it too often since I'll have the 1g for dragstrip abuse.

The 1G is going to be a little turbo/stock engine combo. Already picked up a mint 14b. Shooting for a 2550lb total weight with driver, running methanol, low 1.4 60' times and 10's on the 14b.
 
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i got a fidanza aluminum flywheel i would part with, but i really need those seats and such that we talked about. flywheel is a 6-bolt awd.
 
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