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Re: New Owner Of 1837/2000


fuel
"Just to be pedantic!"


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226605 posted 04/10/16 10:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
curious to know why the bores weren't honed in the process?



'91 E39A Galant VR-4 Evolution | '80 A164A Eterna GSR Turbo

-- Visit my JDM Galant VR-4 info & specifications site here! --

Posts: 2033 | From: Toronto, ON, Canada | Member Since: 02/23/09 | IP: (210.10.209.178) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226606 posted 04/10/16 10:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The rings weren't new.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226638 posted 04/11/16 11:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Thanks for the positive feedback, guys.

The weather cleared up today, so I got to take the car out and finish the break in. I put about 20 miles on the motor, and it ran flawlessly. After the short drive, I brought it back home, checked for leaks and did an oil change.

The car is completely leak free, except for a tiny leak where the oil feed line meets the CHRA. I'll guess I'll have to give the fitting another 1/4 turn or so. Everything else is dry as a bone, which is nice.

The oil looked great, and I cut open the filter, which looked great as well. No metal or any other shit, just super clean.

I've been using these magnets on all my oil filters and they def work. click They can be re-used indefinitely. Here are a few pics of a filter after the first oil change since installing on my landy. You'd be surprised what's in your oil! The metal shavings on the actual magnets are from when I cut open the filter with a dremel.








Posts: 8800 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226695 posted 04/12/16 10:00 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
G, thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll order a set of those.




The motor was running great, so I decided to do a little tuning. I needed to start with adding some fuel, since my WB was reading around a point too lean. I set my knock light to two counts, and made a pull. The car pulled clean to redline, with no knock. I zeroed out the boost controller, so the car was on waste gate pressure, which ended up topping out right at 17 psi. Even at 17 psi, my first impression was the 68HTA wanted to pull way past redline, whereas the 16G variants I've had on the car previously would choke up top and drop off peak boost. The car felt really strong, and I was super happy with how it was running.

That's when I had a little hiccup. Mistake #1, not paying attention to the dash...




Next thing I know, the car dies, and I coast to a stop. I cranked it over, no compression.

So, I towed it home and roll the motor over by hand. The cams line up perfect, but the crank is way off. I pull the head, and as expected, I got 8 bent valves out of the deal. Cool. Here are some pics of the carnage.







The pistons were alright. I cleaned them up a bit, and said fuck it, since at this point I had nothing to lose.






Then, pulled a spare head off the shelf and swapped it in.







I couldn't source an HKS intake cam on short notice, so I decided to swap a stock set back in. Jesus, I forgot how good the car idled before I swapped in the 272s! It purrs like a kitten.

Anyways, after a short hiatus after the long hiatus, the car is back in action.

Next up, making the swap back to E85, and seeing what the 68HTA is capable of.

Posts: 3277 | From: SoCal | Member Since: 01/02/12 | IP: (24.145.93.250) | Report this post to a Moderator

89Patches
I <3 AMS


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226697 posted 04/12/16 10:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So what caused the timing to jump?

Posts: 718 | From: Ontario Canada | Member Since: 01/30/13 | IP: (174.35.243.172) | Report this post to a Moderator

G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226702 posted 04/12/16 11:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That sucks man. Post some pics of your filter after your first oil change. Curious to what you will catch. I haven't changed my oil yet on my galant. Scared to see what i will find lol.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8800 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226708 posted 04/13/16 08:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 89Patches:

So what caused the timing to jump?




When the valves hit it jumped. What initially caused that I'm not entirely sure. I reviewed the log after it happened, and saw a ton of knock. That was the only event that occurred between the car running great and it dying



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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MellowVR4
5" too short
372/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226711 posted 04/13/16 08:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
DAMN, You just put this thing back together too! oh well. That's how we all learn and get better and what we do with our cars.



89 RAIDER V6 5speed
90 GALANT GSX SOLD
91 372/2000 making it pretty again
91 578/2000 sold
92 417/1000 DIED
87 4RUNNER LS400 SWAP SOLD:(

Posts: 1619 | From: Milwaukee, Wi | Member Since: 07/25/09 | IP: (69.11.233.34) | Report this post to a Moderator

faqinshiet
Member +


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226712 posted 04/13/16 09:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Damn! Sorry Brett! I wish I had your skills!



90 GGSX-VR4 clone

Posts: 457 | From: Arlington, Va | Member Since: 12/06/11 | IP: (2605:e000:1c0e:b) | Report this post to a Moderator

iceman69510
Turn Right Racing
855/2000
828/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226718 posted 04/13/16 10:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Quoting 89Patches:

So what caused the timing to jump?




When the valves hit it jumped. What initially caused that I'm not entirely sure. I reviewed the log after it happened, and saw a ton of knock. That was the only event that occurred between the car running great and it dying




Hmmm, doesn't seem likely unless you have some clearance issues or timing was not on. There should not be any chance of contact with proper clearances and timing. Had to jump first for valves to hit.



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-Daily driver status
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

Posts: 10424 | From: Michigan | Member Since: 03/05/01 | IP: (205.144.100.200) | Report this post to a Moderator

marvinmadman
Senior Member
136/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226723 posted 04/13/16 11:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Belt slack combined with pre detonation?



1982/2000 sold
1263/2000 parts
136/1000 work n progress
08 ZX14
10 Ford Flex TT/AWD
05 Galant GTS

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226734 posted 04/13/16 05:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting iceman69510:

Hmmm, doesn't seem likely unless you have some clearance issues or timing was not on. There should not be any chance of contact with proper clearances and timing. Had to jump first for valves to hit.




I agree, iceman. I can't wrap my head around what happened. I suppose PTV clearance could have been an issue. Admittedly, I didn't check it when I assembled the motor. In addition, my intake cam wound up being 4 degrees advanced after I degreed the cams, so whatever the PTV clearance was inevitably got reduced. Even if that was the case though, I don't see how the car can run perfectly one minute, and eat all 8 intake valves the next. If PTV clearance was the issue, I'd think it would have bent all 8 valves on first start.

Regarding the timing, I'm positive the car was perfectly in time, and the belt was tensioned properly. I can say that confidently because A) I've done more 4G63 timing belt jobs than I can count and B) I verified it was good when I degreed the camshafts. There were no failed timing components, and nothing to suggest something failed and caused the belt to lose tension. Hell, even after the valves got bent, the belt was still tensioned perfectly. And, if the belt lost tension I think the cams would have been out of phase as well as the crank. But, when I lined up the marks after the incident, the cams were still in time but the crank was out.

There's only one event that sticks out between the car running fine and the valves getting bent, which was a shit ton of knock. How that causes what happened, I have no idea. All I know is it was good before then, which leads me to believe the detonation either caused a problem, or exacerbated an existing one. Those are pretty much all the facts I know, which I fully admit, still don't add up to bent valves.

Taking what I've outline above into consideration, I'd appreciate your (or anyone's) input. I'd would just be nice to know what happened at this point. This forced me to go back to stock cams in lieu of being able to find a replacement HKS unit on short notice, and honestly, I like driving the car a million times better now. Much like I despise my welded diff because of how it kills driveability, I'm feeling much of the same way about the HKS 272s...

...I'm wondering if the natural willingness to sacrifice performance for driveability is the true sign of getting old

I know for damn sure if this car was used for a DD and didn't sit in the garage 99% of the time, I'd get rid of both.

Posts: 3277 | From: SoCal | Member Since: 01/02/12 | IP: (24.145.93.250) | Report this post to a Moderator

G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226739 posted 04/13/16 05:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
From my experience the 272's are fine for DD duty. They idle great and don't cause the engine to stall at all.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8800 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (50.193.76.1) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226743 posted 04/13/16 07:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'd strongly disagree with them idling "great". Least, they didn't in any of my cars. Then again, I've always used them on MAF based setups, which I think is part of the issue. I've been told by a few guys idle with cams is much easier to sort out on SD. I've always struggled with getting the car to idle decent, not stall, etc, on the 272s. I didn't change a single thing with the tune after swapping from the 272s back to the stock cams, and the car suddenly idles absolutely flawless. It doesn't stall, and also doesn't have trouble when bogged down under an electrical load like when the fan kicks on. If someone has a log of 272s idling "great" on a MAF I'd love to see it and take a few notes.

I've feel like I've tried everything trying to get those cams to idle: I boost leak checked, dicked with the tune, adjusted the BISS, rebuilt the TB, etc, etc. My idle wasn't horrible, but I was never satisfied with the driveability, especially after driving 820 which is super tame and runs perfect. I'm convinced the 272s are one of those "can't have your cake and eat it too" situations, but maybe it's just something I'm doing wrong.

The car actually feels really good on stock cams. On the 272s, I had zero low end power off boost compared to what the stock cams feel like. Not to mention, they should help spool the 8cm 68HTA, which has been getting a lot of negative feedback about being laggy. Strangely, I'm not noticing the choking up top like I expected. I'm guessing the large turbine housing is helping with that a bit, and it's much less pronounced than it probably would be on my old bastard 20G.

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89Patches
I <3 AMS


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226744 posted 04/13/16 07:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Did you break the crank sprocket in half? Had it happen twice now with different cars or the woodruff key broke, never seen that on a 4G though. Worth a look. Also willing to bet that "knock" in your logs is the pistons introducing themselves to the valves. If none of the timing shit is broken, it well sounds like ya fucked up on the timing side of things homeslice. Knock doesn't doesn't cause your t-belt to jump, normally it puts a window in ya block!

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226745 posted 04/13/16 08:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The crank sprocket looked fine when I installed the new timing belt this last time.

Far as the log showing the piston contact as knock, I guess that's possible. Also possible I fucked up the timing, but IDK. Does the initial video of the car idling sound like the timing is off to you? Not arguing, just asking.

I've also got a log of the one knock free pull I made before I trashed the head. Logged ~400hp on 18psi (wastegate pressure). Not saying that's legit hp, but not sure that'd be possible on a car with fucked timing, yanno? I can post the entire log if it maters:


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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226746 posted 04/13/16 08:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Regarding idling with 272's, I've never had an issue with mine causing stalling or anything of the sort. That goes for both my old 2gMAF based setup, SD on MaftPro, and SD on ECMlink. Just the obvious lope that comes with them.

That sucks it happened, dude. I feel like you've had the motor out of that car like ten times now. I've never even had mine out once.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

Posts: 11849 | From: Yakima, WA | Member Since: 04/29/01 | IP: (71.83.231.158) | Report this post to a Moderator

fuel
"Just to be pedantic!"


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226747 posted 04/13/16 08:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
could the timing of the cam sprockets have changed - ie screws not tightened up enough?



'91 E39A Galant VR-4 Evolution | '80 A164A Eterna GSR Turbo

-- Visit my JDM Galant VR-4 info & specifications site here! --

Posts: 2033 | From: Toronto, ON, Canada | Member Since: 02/23/09 | IP: (210.10.209.178) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226748 posted 04/13/16 08:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good to know about the cams, Mark. Your FIAV deleted? How's the car on cold starts? That's when I had the most issues, which I always attributed to the FIAV being blocked.

I didn't need to pull the motor this last time. There was nothing wrong with the one that was in it. But, 1546 needs a motor, so this was a kill two birds with one stone deal.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226749 posted 04/13/16 08:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting fuel:

could the timing of the cam sprockets have changed - ie screws not tightened up enough?




Funny, but that actually happened to me before. Caused me to pull a good motor out of 1837, in fact. That was one of the first things I checked, and the cam gears were good to go, right where I had set them.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226750 posted 04/13/16 08:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, my FIAV is blocked off. Car fires up fine when cold. The ISC does just enough idle-up to keep it running until it warms up.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

Posts: 11849 | From: Yakima, WA | Member Since: 04/29/01 | IP: (71.83.231.158) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226753 posted 04/13/16 09:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Damn. I've had 272s in 3 separate cars, and they've never been what I'd call tame or idle good. Then again, I fucking hate having a welded diff too, which I've heard others say they don't mind in their DD. Maybe it's just me?

What's truly mind blowing is you and G actually agree on something

And where's Donnie at? I think he pulls the motor out of his car like once a year for maintenance or some shit?



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

Posts: 3277 | From: SoCal | Member Since: 01/02/12 | IP:
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G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226758 posted 04/13/16 09:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My 272's are currently on sd, but have had a pair on a maf a long time ago on an old dsm and they idled great on both setups. Great drive-ability, no stalling and great on cold starts as well. My fiav is gone as well, but on the old dsm I still had it. I love them, the only thing I would trade them for is a pair of jun 280's which are just silly.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8800 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226759 posted 04/13/16 10:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was thinking about possibly grabbing a set of HKS 264s next.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

Posts: 3277 | From: SoCal | Member Since: 01/02/12 | IP:
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G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1226760 posted 04/13/16 10:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
264's are great as well. A little cleaner idle for sure.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp

Posts: 8800 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator


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