What should I do? Build Related.

[desant78]

Hello gvr4

I am in the middle of my first build, and learning a lot. I have two questions that I need some input with

1. what turbo should I use?

2. should I replace the head gasket? I already have new ARP hardware.


My build/Mods

560cc Injectors*
Keydriver Stage 3 Chip*
ACT 2600
ACT StreetLite Flywheel
FP Race Exhaust Manifold
Cyclone Intake Manifold
Balance Shaft Delete
New Timing belt, bearings, and tensioner
Wideband A/F
Oil Pressure Gauge
walboro 255
boost gauge*
3g/Evo Maf*


*came already modded in the car
-----------------------

1. Once I complete this build, I want to find a tuning software, and slowly learn how to tune. My original plan was to use an evo III 16g since it bolts right it and I believe my Keydriver chip can handle the turbo just to drive the car until I get into tuning the car.

When I bought the car, I got a FP3065 turbo with it, and would love to run the turbo BUT feel with my knowledge and stock motor, that I would blow up the car. Upon reading some recent threads, the stock internals seem stronger than I thought, and apparently people run this turbo (or FP3052) on a stock block with no problems. I do not have a horsepower goal as much as I have goal to just learn. I have the oil restricter and all the coolant lines for the FP3065 also. Upgrading my fuel injector size, or temporary running the FP turbo at a lower psi so my current chip and fuel injectors are definately ok with me too. Looking for ideas, I'm not set in stone with the current mods.

So that is my question, I am putting a lot of effort into this build, and do not want to build a 600+ hp car. I want to pick a platform, and try to squeeze all the power I can out of it (of course this is over a long period of time as I learn to tune).

I have an FP3065, if I run a evo III 16g I need to go spend the $400 to buy one still. I'd like to run the FP3065, but I want this car to be a daily driver and reliable. Suggestions?

2. Should I replaace the head gaskets? with the motor on a stand, is this a good idea? or "if its not broke, don't fix it?" Also, how much boost can I expect to hold with a non MLS head gasket? if I run the evo III 16g I want to run about 20 to 22 psi. If i run the FP3065 I have no clue what boost I would run. Should I trust the non MLS head gasket? or should I replace the head gasket? or should I upgrade the head gasket? I do have the ARP hardware already, and a regular composite head gasket.


thoughts would be appreciated. I don't have any friends that care to modify cars, so I really don't have anyone to bounce these ideas off of or know anyone with expierence with these cars.

thanks in advance! feel free to ask questions too.

 

[Jesus_Negros]

1. what turbo should I use?

Evo3big16g or 3065 both great turbos. but since you have the 3065 you might as well use it. Do you have the FP 02 housing too?

2. should I replace the head gasket? I already have new ARP hardware

Yes, especially if you're not sure the previous owner changed it and you'll be going in there to change to ARP studs anyway.

If it was me I would run the 3065, get bigger injectors, get dsmlink, and YES change the headgasket if you're building the motor anyways then get the motor tuned its usually worth the money to find a good well known tuner or someone who knows what the hell they're doing. Turbos arent what cause a motor to blow up its bad maintanence and inproper tuning that blows a motor up.

The stock bottomend 4g63t is super capable when taken care of. So make sure you do everything right the first time.

 

[Okayplayer]

I agree with Turbo Negro, and I would also add this. If you are going to go as far as replacing the head gasket, it might be a good to go ahead and re-ring the pistons, and put on fresh bearings. I did it on my first engine build, with an experienced friend and put it back together. I can't guarantee results, as it is wise to have a machine shop check your head, block and rotating pieces, but I've had mine running for 6,000 miles @ 15-19 psi, with no issues. It's a bit more budget friendly to do it yourself, and that's what I chose, but it's always a good idea to have some pros look at it too. At least you will start your build off with a fresh motor...

 

[DynastyLCD]

take into consideration that an FP3065 is going to be in its efficiency range only past 25 psi. so really, you arent using the turbo for what its really meant to do until you pass this mark. that being said, you will need at least ARP's and a MLS gasket. just as important as the MLS gasket itself, is having the head decked/pressure tested. i have a machinist who can achieve a stupid low RA... around 3 or so. makes the head surface look like a mirror finish. having the head decked properly to the right finish is as important as the head gasket you use. MLS head gaskets will be a nightmare if you try to just slap it on a non-machined head and un-prepped block.

but then you're still running around on unknown rings/ring lands, which could give out at any moment, either creating a complete smoke screen, or leaving you on the side of the road. therefore, i suggest a decent rebuild.


my two suggestions:

1g rod/2g piston setup
Mitsubishi rings
ACL tri-metal bearings
polished stock crank
new Mitsubishi front case
balance shafts eliminated
ARP head studs (L19s if you can afford it)
Mitsubishi MLS head gasket

or budget build:

new rings
new bearings
balance shafts eliminated
ARP's
Mitsubishi MLS head gasket


having a fresh motor, with new rings and bearings is peace of mind. you want the engine to last everything you throw at it; the hard 30 psi pulls, and the highway light cruising too.

the best thing to keep in mind: "do it right, or do it twice"

the FP3065 is a good start into the big boy turbo world. but just know, you're going to need a strong platform if you choose to operate this turbo within its efficiency range. it has to handle some serious airflow. trust me when i say, its alot more fun to blast down the road and bury your boost gauge knowing that your engine is in fresh shape!

 

[desant78]

Ok guys, so far from the feedback I see two options

FP3065: Needs MLS head gasket, head machined, fabricate downpipe, larger injectors, tuning software, wastegate, new rings, new bearings, operate above ~25psi

16g: composite head gasket?

Right now, I am leaning toward the 16g solution after reading the feedback. I say that because I have a second block, which I originally I would like to rebuild. I would love to rebuild this block, but I have no clue what I am doing, so that would take a ton of time along with the buying the parts.

This motor was supposedly rebuilt 60k miles ago, and seems to be real clean with new freeze plugs, etc. Since I need a MLS headgasket for the fp3065, and need a tune, I think I am going to go the 16g route for now.

This spring replace the headgasket with a composite gasket using arp's, install 16g and use car with current key driver chip.

Once this car is running, I will slowly source the parts I need to rebuild my second motor (which runs but had a bad oil leak). This motor I will send the head out and have it machined, use a MLS head gasket, have larger injectors, and replace the pistons, rods, and bearings. This way I can keep playing in my garage, and have a driving car. If I did not need to run the turbo at 25+ or get a MLS, I would use the FP3065, but i am not ready to rebuild an engine or move up to a tuning software. Next Winter over christmas I will plan to put in my rebuilt engine.

with a composite head gasket (I'm debating Fel-Pro) how much boost can I hold? My compression numbers for the engine where 150 to 160 across all four cylinders.

thanks for all the feedback, now I feel confident that I don't need a built motor to run my FP3065, and as DynastyLCD said would love the feeling of blasting down the highway carefree on a rebuilt motor, but I feel as though I am tackling way to many new things for me at once. thanks again!

 

[desant78]

click

^thats my car about 2 owners before me. Since then the intake was change, 14b was changed to a 13g. When I picked up the car it had some damaged brake lines, slipping clutch, and oil leak.

 

[Okayplayer]

I run mine @ 21 psi with no issues. I have arp studs and stock gasket on my rebuild with perfect compression accross the board. I'm running a e3 16g and it holds fine. I've heard its good to 26+ but I have never done it myself. I'd say you are safe maxing out that 16g without having an mls head gasket.

 

[Gizmovr4]

My suggestion to you – for the price difference between a composite head gasket and a MLS gasket – buy the MLS gasket… this will allow growth in your setup should you want to change turbo or run higher boost levels. Also since you are new to tuning the MLS gasket is more forgiving should you make a tuning error.

 

[Okayplayer]

But for his budget, I would think the composite is doable for his goals, as he doesn't appear to want to have his head decked etc. if he is going with a smaller budget for the first time around with a 16g I would go composite, because I doubt he will blow that with arp head studs and composite head gasket

 

[transparentdsm]

as long as he isnt tryign to make a 350 awhp car then the composite will be fine. maybe. once you start making any kind of numbers you are better to wait an extra week, save the money and buy whats proper. i understand a budget and all, but do you want to be out on the road 4 months from now having a great time driving and boom. head gasket goes south because of excessive power... someone else said it already... if your building the motor spend the extra for the better gasket. for example my laser makes about 325 right now and 2 years ago i did a rebuild and used a MLS headgasket, since then i have beaten the hell out of the motor, many 8000 rpm shifts, tons of launches and about 8000 miles on it right now and my compression is just as good as the day i put the whole car back together. in my honest opinion i would go MLS and possibly save your self some money down the road. plus when your done building your other block you'll have a strong good motor to pull out and put on your self or to sell to a fellow member in desperate need of a motor.... just some food for thought.

 

[beaner]

Quoting desant78:
with a composite head gasket (I'm debating Fel-Pro)


No.

If your block and head are decked from the machine shop you are crazy not to run a MLS.

If you're just popping the engine apart and put in a MLS without taking both to the machine shop you are asking for problems.

If you run a composite, get OEM.

 

[desant78]

thanks for all the feedback everyone!


I am going to use a composite head gasket, and will NOT have the block decked or head decked.

The reason I am doing this is for two reasons:

1. I have no clue where to find a shop in the area that can do this.

2. I want to build a block from the ground up next build, which start immediately after this car is on teh road (since I have two engines and a lot of free time). When I do this, I will have the block and head decked, and run a MLS along with L19 head studs and my FP3065.


thanks for the help again! I'll be creating a build thread real soon.