Paint and Body Work

[Mac]

Both my 91 GSX and my 92 VR-4 need paint and body work. The Galant is especially rough with complete clearcoat failure on the hood, roof, and spoiler. It also has numerous dents and dings. I plan to get both cars repaired and repainted soon, but I don't know a lot about body work. Even the good body shops in my area are hit or miss when it comes to quality from what I have seen.

I don't want the dents filled with body filler if possible. Are there alternatives to body filler or is it going to have to be used? Some dents are around the fender wells where there are natural creases and lines in the sheet metal, so I know those are going to be a bit tougher to repair.

Is there any prep work that I can do that will help save on costs or help ensure that everything gets done right?

 

[James]

I also have a small debt in my driver door, right on the crease. I was curious how to fix that.

 

[rdomeck]

Mac, I run a fabrication shop in Indianapolis. We have a full body shop that we use mainly for the sculptures that we fabricate, but do some restoration work also. You can check out my website in my signature to see some of the projects that we do. To answer some of your question's....

You could do the disassembly and reassembly. If you do any of the prep work yourself you open up the door for who ever does the work to blame any problems on the prep work. When in fact it could be your prep work or there work.

As far as body filler goes....Every car has body filler in it. Even from the factory. Now some of the factory stuff is lead, but still it is filler. The technology of body filler these days is much better than it used to be. We would use a stud gun to weld studs in the dent and then use a puller to pull the dent out. When you do this it isn't perfect and still requires a little body filler once the studs have been removed.

click

My paint thread ^

I'd be glad to answer any questions you have or give you a quote if you wanted to bring it up to Indy!

 

[JNR]

I have yet to see really good paint/body work done, sadly...I'm sure for $20k yeah, but it would drive me nuts to spend all sorts of money only to see the defects all the time. But, anything that's halfway decent is probably an improvement over peeling clearcoat and not like these cars really need a super good paint job anyway, so just see if you can get some good word of mouth, but more importantly see many (unbiased) examples and avoid the insurance places, as they are only interested in banging things out for $$$.

 

[Mac]

Thanks for the info guys.

That's the problem with body shops, even the "good" ones still put out bad work. My coworker had a rear bumper repaired and repainted at a local body shop that specializes in high end cars. They did a terrible job. The paint was flat and the orange peel was obvious from any angle. Sad thing is that the are known as one of the best locally and easily 90% of their business are BMWs, Jags, Mercs, Lexus, etc.

 

[JNR]

yeah it is a shame...problem is, even the supposed "high end" ones seem to hire people that really have no interest (love) for it and barely above minimum wage for the laborious tasks, plus a lot of places get a name somehow and try to ride that and often times are the worst offenders. Add to that the cheap paint we are forced to deal with (here in CA especially) and shoddy bodywork/quick fixes and no wonder. That and people aren't willing to spend the $$$.

I spent ~$4k on my 'velle in 1997 and while the paint was real good quality and a $ color + the body work pretty good (didn't need a whole lot in the scheme of things and still could've used more), the guy didn't use the right primer and/or let it dry properly, so you can 'see' below the paint. Ruined it! This was considered a good price back then too, as the same job would've cost ~$7k elsewhere and that is with me removing most everything. Can imagine it could cost ~$12-15k now, although good thing is I hardly need any bodywork other than block sanding some more; don't think I can get the same chromabase paint anymore though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Jason G.]

I prepped/painted my car myself this past year, it was the only way I could/would do it affordably. I probably spent around 1500 bucks in paint, supplys and tools. I used DuPont primers, base and clear.

A before and after


And after the cut and polish


The prep work isn't hard, just tedious and long. That's the hardest part. Spraying is pretty easy, however running into a problem and correcting it is where a knowledgable person can help. It's possible to do a decent DIY job.

 

[Mac]

Looks like red is my new favorite color on a 91 GSX.

 

[89Mirageman]

Are there any local tech schools that offer autobody/paint classes? That's what I did about 6 years ago when I wanted to paint my own car, it was easily worth it. Most good shops would want around 2k or so to do a top quality paint job on an older vehicle. If you know nothing about bodywork you could do more damage than help to be honest, plus like someone else said if there are problems down the road they will blame the prep work.

Also you ccould look into PDR (paintless dent repair), they don't use any filler. Sometimes if they can't get to a ding though they will drill a hole somewhere and pop in a rubber plug after they work the ding out. I'd rather have the filler than the hole.

I'm sure these cars have already made you a mechanic, may as well pick up the paint/autobody trade too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rdomeck]

^^^ Most good shops will spend almost $2k in paint materials......For a decent paint job not including jams will run in the $3500-5000 range. Throw in doing door jambs, underside of hood and trunk along with some of the engine bay and push that number into the $7k mark.

Good paint work takes a lot of prep and a lot of investment in a booth, guns, materials, etc. Each one of my paint guns cost over $500. My paint booth new was $25k...... I have 4 paint guns that I use in any single paint job.

Want a good job? You gotta pay more than $2k to get it!

 

[Jason G.]

It wouldn't be worth it to me to spend over 2000 on paint for one of these cars. You have all nice things because you're in the business and a professional at it.

 

[89Mirageman]

I'm sure it would cost a lot more to have the jambs and the underside of the hood and trunk painted but really this wouldn't be needed unless there was an issue with rust, a collision or a color change. Also there are some very nice products out there for less. My local Napa carries the Nason brand, which is a lower grade made by Dupont and its actually very decent. I'd guess all of the supplies could be had to repaint a car for around $500 and it look really nice. Sure you could buy the best of everything and spend all that you have but why?

Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the OP just wanted a really nice respray, not a full restoration. Maybe prices are just cheaper where I'm at but I know quite a few shops that will do a super nice job in the 2k range. I don't mean some crappy job with dents still in the body or orange peel either.

A few semesters at school and my book ran me around $450 I think. For that price they provided me with my sandpaper and masking supplies, top of the line guns and a heated booth with a bake cycle. Plus the instructor was there to guide us. Sure it took the will to learn on our end but it was a win/win situation for me. I have done a few side jobs for friends and family and got that money back and then some.

 

[JNR]

I have all the supplies to paint a car (minus paint/primer), but nowhere to do it...Even have some industrial-grade bottom feed sprayers I inherited from my wife's g-pa a few years ago (he was a professional painter and a damn good one) and itching to try them out, but don't see that happening...Sort of like to practice on a car someday though, as I can paint with a rattle can so well now (lots of practice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), it would be a treat to have a constant source of air/paint flow and adjustable trigger, etc.

Realize these cars aren't worth much, but even so if I were to repaint it (thankfully original paint is in awesome shape; gotta love white!), I wouldn't skimp...so guess if I really needed paint that bad, it'd either have to stay that way, or I'd dump the car.

 

[turbowop]

You can get a damn good paint job done for anywhere between $2k and $3k if you shop around or less if you know somebody in the biz. It might not win concours at Pebble Beach, but it's only a Galant anyway.

The respray on 1051 looks good still and was done in '04. I didn't pay anywhere near $7k for that job. And I don't think anybody that has seen the car in person thought it looked bad at all.

 

[Barnes]

I think 99% of the board would be perfectly happy with a paint job that pretty much looks factory new. Nothing fancy. I'm guessing that can be had for a reasonable price.

 

[JNR]

I'd be happy to see something from a body shop that even looks like a factory job...orange peel is to be expected, but can be corrected by color (wet) sanding; things like fisheyes and seeing under the paint is not acceptable, nor is not having the same shade (metal to metal panels; plastic body panels will never match metal 100%) or over spray, excessive (drips) or peeling clearcoat after a short time and other typical body shop shortcuts. These are things I've seen on almost every aftermarket paint job, even the more $$$ ones (although to a lesser degree)...Heck, even at car shows you can see this, no matter how nice it looks at the initial glance. And, not even talking about the straightness part of the body!

Bodywork, much like welding, is an art as much as a science and like the welding you see, most of it's "OK" and it's extremely rare to see a true work of art. I can see why they'd charge a fortune for paint/bodywork if it was good and it's worth it to spend more...that doesn't include having them do things like removing weatherstripping/trim (another cheap paint job will just mask that stuff).

Whenever you get your car painted, be sure to wait a few weeks to pick it up if you can, cause it will shrink and that's when all the BS starts really showing.

Of course there are good shops out there (afterall, look at the nice cars), but good luck finding one and one that won't charge you $10k or so. That's more than most any galant is worth and can full understand not wanting to do that.

Don't care how nice a $2k paint job may appear to the average person from a distance or in the sun, it's when you really start looking at it and in the shade or under a fluorescent is where you see all the flaws...Least I do and it drives me nuts if I had to pay for that shabbiness. But, labor is $$$...materials is $$$ and everythign else seems to be $$$, so if I only paid $2k for it, I couldn't complain too much.

 

[turbowop]

Orange peel is to be expected? The guy that has done both my JDM bumpers, my JDM hood, bumper valence, Eterna grill and keyless fuel door didn't have any orange peel issues. I've actually seen more orange peel on OE paint. Unless that's what you meant was expected? I picked up all my parts straight out of the paint booth so he did zero work on the paint after clear coat and bake, and they all match perfectly, both urethane bumpers and steel parts. Luckily I still have the custom color mix code. I was a little worried about the fuel door, since it would be easily noticed if the color was off, but it came out perfect.

 

[JNR]

Was just saying that unless there is color sanding afterward that I'd expect to have orange peel to some degree as it's a natural byproduct of paint being sprayed via air of course...this was in reference to a lower priced paint job which I wouldn't think would include a good color sanding, but maybe it does. Guess my point was if that was all the defects that came out of a paint job I got I'd be happy, as it's easy to correct (unlike the other stuff).

 

[turbowop]

I don't think orange peel is an expected byproduct of good paintwork. Like I said, the parts my guy painted have zero orange peel, and the last thing he did to them before I picked them up is spray on the clear coat and let them bake.

But yes, orange peel can be dealt with via wet sanding...if there is enough meat in the clear coat to support it. Once you burn through that, you need to spray it again.

 

[JNR]

Yeah, true (about having enough 'meat') and would imagine with the right paint (coagulation) and sprayer, proper pressures and all that you could get a pretty close to flat surface when it dries, but again think it has a lot to do with where you go as there is a huge variation in outcome (as you know)..sounds like you were fortunate to find a good painter that was reasonable..hang on to him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif