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from a evo to a vr4?

4Grim

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
2,515
Location
Orlando FL
I dont get why some people compare a gvr4 to a later model Evo...20+ years of technology and engineering separates the cars. If the gvr4 outperformed and outpowered a newer Evo, I would seriously doubt Mitsubishi ability on developing a car.

To each is own..if you want a Evo great, if you want a gvr4 great...its what makes you happy. I am a person that likes to drive and own something thats obscure.

I do want a Evo..but the only one I want is a 6 / 6.5...so i have to wait a few more years to bring one leagally here.
 

Brianawd

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Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
I love my vr4 but I'm just ready for a change. I have driven my fair share of evo's and gvr4's. I love the feel of how the evo handles. I also love hopping into my vr4. its nice that car is almost 20 years only and every thing works. Nothing is falling apart. They both have great treats. You just have to pick what you like best. For me I want a car the is fun to drive on the street and handles great. So its evo time. I'm hoping in the next year or so my driveway will have a fd with ls1 swap,(autocross car) Evo 9(DD/ski slut) Wheeler for camping and fun. already have that in the form of a 03disco with 4.5in lift and 34s.
 

i did...had an EVO IX...great cars spent some money to make it even faster but all worth it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif but off the show floor they are fast enough. probably the only reason why people get rid of them is bc of the payments and financial reasons and having a family. If i had the chance to get another one for the right price i definitely would. I'm not complaining either bc i got the vr4 really cheap and i daily drive it plus NO PAYMENTS means extra cash for everything else and its a sleeper! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

boostx

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Joined
Apr 24, 2003
Messages
4,326
Location
Orlando, FL
I have owned my 4 Vr4 and the last one i have for about 7 years (which is longer that most people here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) and everyone said the car was super clean and its has only left me stranded 4 times. Its a fun car especially picking on people who don't have a clue whats under the hood. I have driven from almost stock Vr4 to 600+ hp track cars and the same for Evo's . I don't think you can compare a Evo's to a galant its like comparing Eleanor to Roush , Stingray to a Z06. They both have there weak and strong points.. Like it will take a lot for a Vr4 to handle like a Evo and Evo's respond to mods much better that the Vr4's but on the same hand in the Vr4 you could say this is 1 out of 3000 cars. They are both SWEET RIDES.
 

If you can afford an Evo why not have both? Had various dsm's since 99 and have had my current Evo IX for about 20 months and my VR4 for 6ish. VR4 only cost me $1500 + about $1500 in mods and maintenance. Both are fun, but at the end of the day if I absolutely had to choose one then I'd take my IX and its payments. x1000000000. No comparison in fun factor between the two.

Sure, power can be similar but handling.. Not even in the same solar system. And I'm a suspension snob, so argue all you want.. Evo has far more potential along with the differentials to back everything up.
 

3rdstrikedsm

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Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
3,402
Location
32159, FL
Agreed and the steering and chassis stiffness rivals cars that cost 3x as much as an evo now the galant can be fast in a straight line but never in a million years could it hold a candle to even a stock evo in the twisties.

Hell for 500.00 I went mid 11's in one of my evo's so it accepts mods quite well and is fast out of the box.
 
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If anyone has an evo they want to trade straight up for my rare vr4 let me know lol butter smooth shifting....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
I have been watching this thread for a while and whilst I do agree with a lot of the comments made, there are a few things that I think need to be said. I'm not about to embarrass myself by suggesting that a VR4 can be every bit as good as an EVO, especially the VIIIs and IXs, which really do represent the latest chapters of Mitsubishi's AWD rally platform development. Kevin (4Grim) made a very valid point that if the latest Evolutions weren't significantly better than a car twenty years their senior, it really wouldn't say much about Mitsubishi's R&D section.

That said, having read through a lot of the comments here it is very apparent that the real nail in the VR4s coffin came when Mitsubishi decided to change the orientation of the 4G63 engine in the Evolution IV. If they hadn't done that, I have no doubt whatsoever, that we would all be running MIVEC heads, twin scroll turbos and six-speed gearboxes. The EVO III 16G is a great turbo. You can argue all you want that it can produce as much power as any of the newer EVO turbos, but cost issues aside, I am still sure if it was possible to bolt any later Evolution model manifold and turbo up to our engine and down pipe the EVO III 16G would be a thing of the past. And whilst I understand the logic behind the comments that the cost of the fabrication necessary to fit a later model EVO twin scroll turbo to a VR4 is not worth the moderate power gains it nets, it is the amalgamation of all these little improvements that makes the EVO more 'refined' and why the EVO responds better to mods (i.e. because it is already more efficient).

I have no doubt that later model EVOs do handle very, very well, but it also amuses me how many people play down the handling of the VR4 when so few of them have actually driven a VR4 with a full compliment of real LSDs installed. And by real I mean proper ATB or clutch pack differentials, not the stock 4-bolt viscous units, which really don't do much. I find that particularly ironic in view of the fact that quite a few people have mentioned in this thread and others that what really puts the EVO ahead of the VR4 in the handling stakes is the active centre differential. The bottom line is that very few people are willing to spend the money on a 20 year old car that it would take to address the technological deficiencies that it obviously exhibits.

A VR4 might never be as good as an EVO but if people were willing to spend the money rather than treating the VR4 as a 'budget' performance car, I honestly believe that this huge gap could be closed more than most people would really believe. And that brings me on to my final point. On the race track, even if you could bring a VR4 up to 80% of the potential of an EVO it is going to get embarrassed within a few laps by a good driver in the newer car. I believe the One Lap Team commented upon this when they took the new EVO X on board. But on the street where you can rarely drive at more than 70%, I beg to differ that a VR4 with front, centre and rear LSDs, a six-speed transmission, twin scroll turbo setup, decent suspension and a fully tuned ECU would really be that disadvantaged.

The bottom line is that no-one in their right mind is going to spend $40,000 - $50,000 to build a VR4 to that level when they can pick up a low mileage late model EVO with most of the above for well under $30,000. My point however is that just because no-one is willing to do it, does not mean that the VR4 could never be 'almost as good' as a much newer car whilst retaining all that old school character.
 
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Whoodoo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
927
Location
Binghamton, NY
My 2 cents:

In the end, it comes down to a very personal opinion. What do you value in your car most? For me, I love a car with character. My VR4 has gobs of it and more. I didn't get the same impression with the Evos I've driven.

If performance is what does it for you, then yeah, the Evo is better. My criteria, however is different, and so is everyone's.

In conclusion, both kick ass.
 

I agree with cheeky.. i had mostly stock but had front and rear LSD and the car was a blast to drive once the pesky 4ws was gone and had all arround grip.. on stock suspension i might add.. when i get my engine done with about 400whp i think the car will do everything i want it to do.. cept pick up girls... but thats what my charming personality is for? then i can fit lots of them in the car!

I think its just the same old argument.. the vr4 is NOT a cheap car its NOT a rice car.. its not even like an evo in any way really.. no carbon fiber all over the place and smoked out and outrageous body kits and wings its like a classic luxury evo like it was kinda ment to be.. i mean its not super stylish its kinda boxy but you gotta love the car to own it or just let it go and its not for you.. dont get one because your trying to replace the evo or the sti or anything like that buy one because you actually WANT one and WANT to throw endless amounts of money into it

if you want a track monster or want to read about what you own in magazines then get a evo or a newer car. id say 99.8% of poeple i meet even car people dont know a galant vr4 exists.

and in defense mine didnt stop running untill i pulled it apart and i ran the crap out of it.

BUT F&R Lsd kicks ass... seriously kicks ass..
 

Brunoboy

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,880
Location
San Bruno,CA Home of SFO
I bought my vr4 because i couldnt afford a Evo, I have spent countless amounts of money on this vr4 and i could never sell it. I still want an evo but I will get that as a second car lol.
 

Brianawd

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Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
I don't care if you replace every bushing in the vr4 put a clutch type lsd in the rear or even front,center,rear. The evo will always handle better. Now with that said. I loved my gvr4. Hell the 2nd day I was pulling parts off my vr4 I was sitting in the front seat and it hit me that I would never drive this car again. I have had more fun in my gvr4 then any other car in my life. So it was not a easy thing to do. But my car interests have changed so the evo was the way to go for me.
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
I guess one day I'll have to try driving an EVO VIII or IX to find out how good they really are. I only ever drove a IV and frankly I wasn't that impressed.
 

GreenGSX

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
681
Location
Rochester, New York
I have the unique pleasure to have friends with cool cars and I consider myself lucky to have been able to drive them on a race track. This is a great topic for me because I have been going back and forth struggling with the idea of replacing the One Lap VR4 with an Evo. Not an Evo X but an 8-9 that is in my price range. Things changed for me after my last event of the year in October where I got a chance to drive or drive against all three.

Here are the players…

The One Lap VR4…it sports a well past its prime Koni yellow/DSS suspension, big wheels, bushings, Baer track brakes, and a GT30R turbo. It puts down about 360-380hp to the wheels on pump gas depending on boost.

The Evo 9 features a Robbie Spec KW suspension, stock turbo, FMIC, etc..It makes about 360hp to the wheels with most of that down low and falling off at the top end. I’ve driven this car and it turns in like a laser. Just think about a corner and you’re already there. That turn in lets you unwind the wheel earlier and that gets you on the gas earlier and that is what its all about. The brakes are great (brembo/st43) and bigger wheels with RS3’s.

The Evo X is the One Lap Evo which has the FP green, KW clubsports, Magnus parts/tune and it makes just under 400hp to the wheels. This car is flat out amazing to drive. Gobs of grip, killer brakes (brembo/st43), and aero make this pretty potent on the track. It still has some sorting to be done as I felt there was more to be had with a slight change in spring rate but overall this car is the sh*t.

So its no wonder that the X leads the pack. It is in another league with its handling and braking. On track it has a higher corner entry speed then either the 9 or the VR4, better brakes, and about middle of the pack for power. The One Lap X could easily do a 2:12 – 2:14 lap of the glen. Easily.

The X is clearly number one but number two is more of a tie then anything else. That surprised me because I would have said that on paper the VR4 was going to be outclassed by both Evo’s. But we didn’t race them on paper we battled it out on the track and its there that the VR4 really held its own. The VR4 did not turn in like a laser but it wasn’t like driving a truck either. It turned in quickly and matched the Evo in the corners. When things got faster, like in turns 10/11 heading out to the front strait the VR4’s aero gave it a distinct advantage, I could pull on the Evo on both the front and back straits. Some of that was the VR4 was just a little faster and again some was my ability to carry more speed into those straits. The Evo had an obvious advantage in its brakes. That was easy to see at the end of the long straits where the 9 was able to reel me back in by braking later and harder. In the tighter sections we were dead even and turning identical laps times of 2:15 -2:16.

I walked away from that event knowing the Evo X is just a lights out better and pleasantly surprised the VR4 held its own. I can say that with confidence because the I know and respect the driver of the 9. His car is well sorted and he knows the track. He also isn’t the kind of guy who takes getting passed by a buddy lightly. I know I did my best and so did he and we came out pretty equal. Does this mean that in the hands of a pair of pro drivers the results would have been the same? Who knows? Now that CJ Moses is out of his VR4 I might be one of the last guys still pushing the VR4 this fast on a race track.

So I am no longer in the market for an Evo. I know I could have cleaned his clock if I had just turned the boost up but my confidence in the old girl is back and I am now working on making the VR4 faster for next year. Nothing would make me happier to report back that the VR4 is equal to the X. I just have to figure out how to get a sub 2:15 lap out of her.
 

RyRy210

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Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
67
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I don't know about you guys, but performance aside, I love the stealth look for the VR-4. It's such an enigma. Only those who know the car well can appreciate what it is and it's potential.
 

4wheelsqueal

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Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
447
Location
Shawano,WI
I went from the vr4 to the evo and as much as I loved my galants, I wouldn't trade the evo for any of them. Grantly I did not have perfect specimens to start with, all didn't run or were headed for the scrap heap when I picked them up. Sank countless hours into getting three of the five I owned back on the road and many more trying to keep them on the road. It took me away from my family, left me very little free time, and cost me plenty. I did enjoy working on them, loved the stealth factor of the vr4 but in the end, took too much to maintain them. When my wife said I could probably afford an evo with what I spent each month on the galant fleet, I thought she was nuts until I sat down and ran the numbers. And she was right. So as much as I loved my galants and said I would never sell them, the reliablity of the evo, the out-of-the box performance, and a lot more room won me over. I will miss 555/2000 more than any other car I've owned, but it was time for me to move on.
 
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I had an 03 evo 8 and sold it after i dumped a bunch of money and time in it. I cried that day, it was my most prized possession, but I wanted to start my own business and cant do that without capital. So I saw a 90 gallant gsx with a 91 turbo/harness/ecu setup about two and half months ago and bought it........been throwing money at it since.
 

cheekychimp

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Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
I am glad that Tim posted up regarding the VR4 track car, it confirms some of my beliefs that the VR4 is obviously lagging behind it's newer brethren in the technology stakes but is still an extremely capable car. Someone find that guy some brakes!

As regards reliability, I really believe that this is an owner influenced phenomenon. Obviously there are lemons out there with serious gremlins that some of us have been unfortunate enough to get landed with but I still think the overall problem that people experience with these cars is a failure to properly resolve issues that any reasonable person would expect a 20 year old car to have before they start messing around with the configuration. Not to mention the fact that stock VR4s are few and far between and I suspect the 'super reliable' new EVOs people keep commenting on are probably being run in stock or stockish form.

I bought my 2nd VR4 for about $3500-USD in pretty decent condition but I have spent close to another $3000-USD on cleaning it up. Some of that was cosmetic (paint, accessories etc) but a large amount was work on the engine and transmission, sorting out leaks, replacing worn parts, cleaning up the throttle body to get a decent idle etc not to mention a bunch of cleaning, new struts and tyres all round etc.

That is a lot of money and 3K would have bought some nice performance goodies but a lot of guys on here have still made the conscious decision to do what I did and spend that money in the pursuit of an OEM quality baseline rather than trying to significantly raise power levels. If you look around the board, one thing singles out most of those members, they are all driving their cars around on a daily basis instead of whining and moaning about their car with an FP turbo kit and fancy engine and twin plate clutch that has 'never run right'. I'm not suggesting that everyone who moved over to an EVO did so for that reason (guys like Brian obviously didn't) but I think some did.
 
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