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evo3 16g = big 16g?


turboren
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 381967 posted 09/14/06 01:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I realize this has more than likely been covered before, but are the evo3 and "big" 16g one and the same?

I couldn't find it by searching, but RRE seems to indicate that they are the same. However, some people selling them say, for instance, "big 16g but not evo3."

Thanks for the help,

Ren



1078/2k-sold, 733/2k, 224/2k, 1571/2k (AMGVR4)-sold
74 Mazda REPU; 87 CRX Si; 95 Ford Aspire (x2); 92 Laser RS AWD; 94 GMC Sonoma; 96 Miata M ed (turbo); 02 Vespa ET4 150 (new daily)


Edited by turboren (09/14/06 01:47 AM)

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Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 381988 posted 09/14/06 06:31 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evo3 16g is bigger and better than the standard big 16g.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

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borat
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382096 posted 09/14/06 10:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I believe there is no difference in the actual size of the turbos; the housings and compressor/turbine wheels are the same dimensions. The difference is in the materials. The Evo 3 compressor wheel is better designed, with thinner blades and is made of a lighter Inconel alloy. Also, the housings were made from a lighter-weight alloy as well (this also applied to the turbos fitted standard on the Evo 1 & 2 though).

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382098 posted 09/14/06 10:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Say, can we use the present EVO 8/9 turbo as a direct bolt-on? Is that a variable scroll turbo, where the vanes are adjustable?



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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Polish
Dr. Pilosh Haagenscodyberger


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382100 posted 09/14/06 10:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No it is not Variable, just a divided housing.

You can not use new Evo turbos as is, they are backwards. People have done it but everything has to be reversed, alternator moved, etc. Intake will point towards the drivers side and exhaust down the passenger side.



My car site
Old GVR4 #1186/2000

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borat
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382102 posted 09/14/06 10:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Corey's right; trying to fit an Evo 4-9 turbo to our car would be a seriously major job. It has been done, but IMHO it's just not worth the work involved.


Edited by borat (09/14/06 10:47 AM)

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Bimmubishi
giant log


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382105 posted 09/14/06 10:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cy, you just jacked the hell out of this thread.

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382117 posted 09/14/06 11:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just call me the Jack Jerk then. My question was somewhat related to this thread, plus he already got his answer.

I guess my real question is: is there a variable vane turbo that could work on our cars, since I see that a bunch of new cars are using them? If not, is it a hardware issue (bolting it on to the stock manifold), or a software issue for the vane control?

My 14b is starting to beg for replacement, and I'm undecided on the EVO3 or some ball bearing turbo that's twice as expensive. Hopefully I can afford either after the wedding, granted there's any gift money left after we settle up our credit card bills and she lets me buy more car parts with our "community funds."


Edited by CP (09/14/06 11:48 AM)

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382141 posted 09/14/06 12:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Heh heh heh, Cy your problems are just beginning!



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-SOLD
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Bimmubishi
giant log


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382156 posted 09/14/06 12:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'll sell you my 16g. I'm not sure you want it though cause you "aren't interested in going faster"

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382157 posted 09/14/06 01:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Heh heh heh, Cy your problems are just beginning!




Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Alex: no thanks, and bite me Unfortunately I don't think I'll be joining you at any COM events in the near future. I emailed the Tech guy on the website, and he said I'll need some sort of cage with the StopTechs. Oh well



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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Bimmubishi
giant log


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382167 posted 09/14/06 01:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I told you that three weeks ago.

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Bimmubishi
giant log


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382170 posted 09/14/06 01:47 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here's where I told you on 7/15

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382172 posted 09/14/06 01:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah, well, I was hoping you were wrong I'm following that "bolt in cage" thread with some interest now.



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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LunarShadow
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382218 posted 09/14/06 03:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Is there a variable vane turbo that could work on our cars, since I see that a bunch of new cars are using them? If not, is it a hardware issue (bolting it on to the stock manifold), or a software issue for the vane control?





The answer to this is all around no. There may be a few around on new cars, and the old Dodge Shelby Chargers used them too way back in the eighties. The problem is, and has been, that they don't stand up to extreme heat very well. The vanes crack and fall apart. To my knowledge, this is why they aren't used frequently. They may be fine for low boost/ low exhaust temp applications. Beyond that, forget it.

My TDI has one, but normal diesel exhaust temps don't begin to approach that of gassers.

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turboren
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382419 posted 09/15/06 02:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do the Evo3's and big 16g's flow tha same amount? Is the Evo3 supposed to be quicker to spool?

Ren



1078/2k-sold, 733/2k, 224/2k, 1571/2k (AMGVR4)-sold
74 Mazda REPU; 87 CRX Si; 95 Ford Aspire (x2); 92 Laser RS AWD; 94 GMC Sonoma; 96 Miata M ed (turbo); 02 Vespa ET4 150 (new daily)

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aerick
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382421 posted 09/15/06 03:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
hey go here this should help you

Its like 30 bucks differences, so just get the evo 3 16g it better without a doubt

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turboren
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382775 posted 09/16/06 01:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks, that clears some things up.

Ren



1078/2k-sold, 733/2k, 224/2k, 1571/2k (AMGVR4)-sold
74 Mazda REPU; 87 CRX Si; 95 Ford Aspire (x2); 92 Laser RS AWD; 94 GMC Sonoma; 96 Miata M ed (turbo); 02 Vespa ET4 150 (new daily)

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keydiver
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382850 posted 09/16/06 11:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

My 14b is starting to beg for replacement, and I'm undecided on the EVO3 or some ball bearing turbo that's twice as expensive.




Ben there, done that. And, believe me, the EVO3 16G spooled just as fast. The only difference I could find in the 2 turbos was >25 psi, where the EVO starts falling off.

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empty01
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382880 posted 09/16/06 01:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quote:

Corey's right; trying to fit an Evo 4-9 turbo to our car would be a seriously major job. It has been done, but IMHO it's just not worth the work involved.




Only one time I could see it being worth it is if you wanted to stick with a 16G and bought the EVO RS 6.5 TME. It has a 33% weight reduction in the shaft. However for all the hassle it's only worth it if you have alot of time/cash and want to be "different."

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CP
Still lingering, kinda like a chili and beer fart


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 382944 posted 09/16/06 05:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks Jeff. I'm not too concerned with top end power, so EVO3 it will be



-Cy
Resident Spec Miata Racer | '93 Audi UrS4 | '04 Ram CTD | #1788/2000: SOLD

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GVR-4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 383031 posted 09/16/06 10:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is unrelated to the original subject of this thread, but whatever...

Compressor wheels are not made of inconel (high grade stainless steel); turbine wheels are. Comp wheels are either aluminum or in some cases titanium.

Garrett produced the VNT's in the Shelby's and they sucked. Materials are better now and VNT's (Garrett) and VTG's (BorgWarner) have been used in diesels for a while and are beginning to be used in gasoline engines (which have higher EGT's than diesel). The new 911 turbo has two BorgWarner VTG's.

VNT= Variable Nozzle Turbine
VTG= Variable Turbine Goemetry



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Peter

Can't polish a turd.

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turboren
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 384785 posted 09/20/06 10:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sort of OT, but what other cars came with non-EVO3 big 16g's? For instance, would an EVO II have come stock with a big 16g?



1078/2k-sold, 733/2k, 224/2k, 1571/2k (AMGVR4)-sold
74 Mazda REPU; 87 CRX Si; 95 Ford Aspire (x2); 92 Laser RS AWD; 94 GMC Sonoma; 96 Miata M ed (turbo); 02 Vespa ET4 150 (new daily)

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borat
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 385581 posted 09/23/06 12:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Common consensus is that the Evo VR4 and Evo 1 came with a small 16g, the Evo 2 came with either a small or big (manufacture date dependent), and the Evo 3 came with the 'lightweight' big 16g.

However, my old turbo came out of an Evo 1, but was definitely a big 16g. Now you could say that "someone replaced it previously", which is exactly what I thought. Turned out though, that the housing stamp ended in 01450, which exactly correlates to an Evo 1 turbo. This got me intrigued, so I started researching. It turns out that that Mitsubishi didn't start manufacturing the 'small 16g' until 1993/94. Apparently it was first developed for Subaru by Mitsubishi for use in the (then) new Impreza.

What this means is that all the VR4 Evo's and Evo 1's must have been fitted standard with a big 16g. It's possible that the small did make it onto some Evo 2's, though.

Problem is, I can't find the damn article which gave me this information . I'll try and find it again. In the meantime, this thread pretty much backs up the theory as well.


Edited by borat (09/23/06 01:00 PM)

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467
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 385588 posted 09/23/06 01:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I bought a low mileage VR4 RS engine from an importer several years ago. Seemed to have original clutch disk even. It appeared to be unmolested in the turbo section too. It came with a big 16G.


Edited by 467 (09/23/06 01:36 PM)

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