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Fuel pump question


steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940772 posted 10/18/10 03:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So once the car gets warm it dies. Today I changed out the coil pack and changed the fuel filter and that didn't help. I went to go change the fuel pump and the bolts that hold it to the tank are so rusted I can't get them out and also can't get the tube that comes off the sending unit unbolted. I was wanting to know if anybody has any suggestions on getting it out. I tried penetrating oil with no luck.

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Terry Posten
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940805 posted 10/18/10 05:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The fuel pump is not likely the cause of your stalling when hot.

Most likely it is a coolant sensor on the lower t-stat water neck.

I don't recall the correct ohmage readings of a properly working temp sensor probe for the ECU but it is really easy to test. And it is only like $15 to replace.



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Terry Posten
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940806 posted 10/18/10 05:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
And as I think more on it, check the ISC motor to make sure it is working and giving the proper ohms at each of the 4 coils. Also make sure the closed throttle switch is grounding out when the throttle is closed and opens up with the slightest throttle opening.



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2010 Outlander GT S-AWC Premium w/nav (wife daily)
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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940813 posted 10/18/10 05:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I haven't drove the car in a few weeks. When i was driving it i got on the highway and after about ten mins it started to buck and slowed down. The car would not go any faster. then I pulled over to the shoulder and it died. Was luckly enough to get it atleast home. Couple days later tryed taking it to my buddy's shop and couldn't make it out of my subdivison. I stop at a stop sign and go to take off and it just dies. So today I changed those things and just let it idle in my drive way and after about 5 min of running you could hear it wanting to die and then a min or two later it died.

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Terry Posten
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940830 posted 10/18/10 06:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
OK, that is a little different. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to see what is happening?

To answer your original question.

All you can do is soak it in PB blaster for a few days and hope.

If you get the screws off without breaking the studs, then your home free. If you have to, use self taping screws after you snap off all the studs, just clean the tank out after you screw them into the tank.

For the line, you can do this a few different ways.

#1 - drop the tank and you don't have to pull the lines. (not too easy to do, get some help)
#2 - Soak in pb blaster for days and try again. Use a good pair of large vice-grips but be careful not to twist the pipe off the plate.
#3 - Cut a slit in the floor of the trunk with tin snips and fold the floor up and out of the way, then you can pull the assembly out of the tank without disturbing the fittings (screws up the trunk floor pretty bad though).

Good luck.



1992 Galant VR4 click
2010 Outlander GT S-AWC Premium w/nav (wife daily)
2010 Jaguar XF Premium Luxury (my daily

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940832 posted 10/18/10 06:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Have you checked the fuel pressure?

If servicing the pump may be difficult due to corrosion, it's probably in your best interest to verify that the fuel pump is the root cause of your issues.



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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940843 posted 10/18/10 06:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No I haven't checked the fuel pressure yet. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. When I bought this car I was told there was a walbro 255 in there. But I'm not so sure now. So I changed the temp sensor and now go to try and start it and the fucking thing won't start feels like the batterys died. So i jump the car and it starts up. So i take the jumper cables as soon as i pull my other car away it dies. I don't know what the fuck is going on with this car.


Edited by steverussell (10/18/10 07:07 PM)

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940853 posted 10/18/10 07:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Pull the pump and check the fuel pump strainer.



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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 940953 posted 10/18/10 10:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm going to try and pull the pump tomorrow. I sprayed the hell out of it with penetrating oil.

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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941181 posted 10/19/10 04:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Tryed to get the fuel pump out today with no luck. More bad news took the battery to orielly's to see if it was dead and it was. It's only 6 weeks old and only been start a half dozen times. So when i jumped it last night the alternator should of kept it running. So I'm thinking the alternator is bad.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941210 posted 10/19/10 05:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That's kinda what I was thinking. But your battery should have a warranty, right? If the bolts on the sender don't come off, just soak some more and come back tomorrow. Also, use some good fuel style wrenches on the fuel line as to not round the hex portions off. You'll be a lot more pissed if something strips or breaks off; take your time and be patient.



-Jeff
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Edited by jepherz (10/19/10 05:09 PM)

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Terry Posten
Old Balls
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941213 posted 10/19/10 05:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If your battery is dead/dieing and the alt is shot, that could be your issue of stalling/cutting out.

I really would be sure before you brake something in the fuel system if that is not your problem.

Remember, that fuel system is under hi pressure (as much as 80psi under big boost) and the smallest issue turns into a major fire hazard.

Get a pressure gauge on a AFPR and a volt gauge, then get it started. Monitor the fuel pressure and voltage at the battery. See what is up, it may be something much simpler than ripping out the pump.



1992 Galant VR4 click
2010 Outlander GT S-AWC Premium w/nav (wife daily)
2010 Jaguar XF Premium Luxury (my daily

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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941234 posted 10/19/10 06:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah the battery has a warranty. I didn't know they made a special wrench for that. I'm trying not to round them off. I sprayed the sending unit down with penetrating oil again. I'm going to change the alternator and see what happens. How many volts should I be seeing at the battery?

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WaRrIoRs16
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941268 posted 10/19/10 07:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
When it's running you should see just over 14 volts.



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crankwalk
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941272 posted 10/19/10 08:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Terry Posten:

If your battery is dead/dieing and the alt is shot, that could be your issue of stalling/cutting out.




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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941342 posted 10/19/10 10:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Correct me if I'm wrong, here, gents (don't think I am), but if your alternator is dead, once the battery is sufficiently depleted, the car is stone dead. It might jump and run on cables, but once they're pulled, it's night-night time.

Good luck to the OP. I actually found this thread searching, as 464/1000 has been crapping out when hot above 4000rpm at WOT and just shit the bed in the driveway coming home. Already warmed up, short trip, park, short trip, park, short trip, clutch-in to coast into driveway, and pffft. DOA.



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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941347 posted 10/19/10 10:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
That's exactly what happen as soon as I took off the jumper cables off the car died.

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Terry Posten
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 941351 posted 10/19/10 10:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A battery can be a very funny thing if it is dieing. So can our alternators. They could be very flaky with temp changes.

If the Alt works when cold/cool, it could give a battery that won't hold a charge a surface charge and once the alt falls off, the battery can quickly (sometimes 1 minute, sometimes 30 minutes) go flat causing stumbling and misfiring.

A proper Alt should put out 14.5 volts, give or take .5 volts. It should be checked at first start-up and after the engine if at full operating temp. The voltage could drop to around 13.5 volts at full temp but any lower, and it is not healthy.

The battery on the other hand could have a plate inside that is making intermittent connection. Jar it a little bit and it may appear good until put on a load tester.



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2010 Outlander GT S-AWC Premium w/nav (wife daily)
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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 960600 posted 12/29/10 06:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I finally got around to pulling the alternator. I took it to oriellys and it tested good so I put it back in and started it up. Once its running I pulled the positive cable off and it died. Shouldn't it run off the alternator?

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dmj
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 960617 posted 12/29/10 08:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Time to check the battery cables and clean all battery grounds. Also check all wires/connectors that attaches to the alternator.on aside note disconnect the vacuum on the fpr and check if you have a diaphram leak ,like Terry said you need to check fuel pressure.

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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 960817 posted 12/30/10 07:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just a thought, but pulling the battery cables on any running car is bad because it causes a voltage spike. Modules/brain boxes do not like high voltage spikes. Battery voltage is going to vary with the temperature sensed and can be anywhere from 13.x to 15.x volts. Minimum battery standing voltage is 12.6V (6 plates multiplied by 2.1V per plate) at a full state of charge, but can read higher with a surface charge following charging.



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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 960991 posted 12/31/10 05:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
But once I take the battery cable off the battery. It should run off the alternator right?

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93graybird
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 961227 posted 01/02/11 07:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
have you put a voltmeter on it to see if the alt is charging the batt while running and have you checked the alt fuse

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SouthCaliVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 961416 posted 01/03/11 06:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting steverussell:

But once I take the battery cable off the battery. It should run off the alternator right?




This is not a good method for testing an alt. the voltage spikes can damage other components as well as the alt.

Home method, with a volt meter, start the car & load the system. I.e. turn on everything, lights heater 4ways ect. you should still see at least 13+volts. try this again with the car after a spirited drive. if you see lower voltage something is amiss. with only the engine running & everything else off, you should see 14 volts or better but with no amp load it's not going to tell you much.

For sure do a voltage drop test on the grounds & primary alt lead to batt. fix any issues you find here first, then if you still show low output it's alternator time.



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steverussell
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 961424 posted 01/03/11 06:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Thanks for all your guys help with this. But I'm dropping the car off at strictly modified and hopefully get all the problems this car has squared away.

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