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MD150427 ECU anyone got any info?


cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933023 posted 09/20/10 04:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Despite my previous comments in this thread, I am still having issues.

I had a brainstorm today This is a 1990 car but it came with an MD150427 ECU installed which is supposed to be for a 220 hp car. Is that ECU compatible with a 1990 car? A lot of suggestions were put forward to me about issues possibly being related to the MAF and the idle position switch, the exact two wires (6 & 14) that are supposed to be swapped if using a 1991+ ECU in a 1990 car.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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FlyingEagle Galant VR4.org Moderator
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933094 posted 09/20/10 08:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Not your answer by any means, but I have this listed for your ECU:

MD150427 - J-Spec Single Board. Eprom/Non Eprom - 220hp Galant VR4

So, what years was the VR4 available in JDM trim, and what ECU's came in them. Which were 90 style, or what chipsets would give them away, etc?



C53A 1 of the ~1500

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933101 posted 09/20/10 09:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah that was all that I could find, hence the reason I posted up. I'm hoping one of our Aussie or Kiwi friends will spot this and post up, they seem to be really hot on the exact dates of face lifts, power upgrades etc. I really hope this is the issue. It would save so much time and heart ache if all I need to do is pull a panel and swap two wires in the harness over.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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FlyingEagle Galant VR4.org Moderator
Eager Beaver


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933108 posted 09/20/10 09:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So, in essence all that is lacking is how to tell the difference be a 90 and 91" style board.



C53A 1 of the ~1500

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933120 posted 09/20/10 09:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I guess so but the JDM boards are different because they have the additional cyclone controller board. I'm not sure if looking at a DSM 90 vs a DSM 91 board will help us!

What's on your mind?



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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RedTwo
Rangi Kiwi


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933172 posted 09/21/10 02:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
MD150427 Is from a pre face lift (pre vents) VR4 or VR4 RS produced between 1-10-1989 and 3-07-1990. Essentially the same parts as the earlier 450cc, TD05H-14B cars.

The AFM/MAF is the same as all US VR4, TPS is the same as the US90 VR4, but the CAS doesn't have a corresponding US part number. ISC is a bit funny as Mitsubishi seem to have replaced all 4G6X ISC units in ASA with a generic part?!?

Did you ever get everything in the other thread sorted? A mismatched ISC would cause a CEL at closed throttle/idle conditions - eventually it would burn out the ICS and stop idling.

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donniekak
Member ++


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933208 posted 09/21/10 09:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting FlyingEagle:

So, in essence all that is lacking is how to tell the difference be a 90 and 91" style board.



I can tell in 10 seconds from a picture. The easy way to tell is the tach signal circuit.

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933282 posted 09/21/10 03:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The wire swap is for pre 89.10 cars to post 89.10 cars. Goes with the ignition transistor circuit changeover also. Red Two is correct.

Whats the vin on your car? Check it on the jdm caps I sent you and you can see the exact build date of the car. If not I can check it for you

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933433 posted 09/21/10 09:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Rich I will grab the VIN when I go back to base. When I try to open those CAPS disks in XP on my desktop it states the disks are blank The laptop can still tell that there is data on the disks but I daren't load the program after the last blue screen of death episode ... so I still don't have CAPS

As for Red Two, you're banned mate for being the bringer of bad news. No seriously it is good to know that ECU is spot on for the car it came in which actually makes sense since it was pretty much as stock as you could get when I picked it up; it's just a shame there is obviously still a problem that won't be solved by swapping the pins.

I think I am going to have to break out the nice E-PROM JDM ECU, swap those pins over anyway and put that back in the car and get a logger. All this guessing is doing my head in. I'm throwing a CEL so I must be throwing a code right? I just need to check that other ECU out and find out if the EPROM it came with was for 510cc or 450cc injectors and swap those in. MUST GET LOGGER

To answer your other questions/comments Red, this is a JDM car so there should not be an issue with non compatible US parts on it (I hope). You can never be sure but it seems against the balance of probabilities in this case. I will swap out the Throttle Body and see if this is a TPS/Closed Throttle Switch/ICS issue. Car seems to idle fine.

Previous issues are still there but less frequent. Car bucks in the 2500-3500 rpm range. I notice it most usually whilst traveling at low speed, car parks, speed humps etc or whilst cruising in high gears 4th and 5th. It does not occur under acceleration with the throttle pressed down but as you release the throttle. CEL occurs in the same rev range with rpms falling and usually remains illuminated as the rpms fall to 750-800 and the car idles. The slightest touch on the throttle puts the CEL out. Ironically a thrown CEL is never accompanied by any bucking and when the car is kangarooing down the road the CEL never comes on . I am therefore no longer sure if the two are related but the rpm range where both occur seems to suggest that they are. Assumptions as always however can be very dangerous things.

Things done so far as per suggestions: -

Throttle cable tension checked - seems fine, no dragging excessive play and throttle plate closes
Closed Idle switch unplugged - condition still exists
Closed Idle Switch plugged in again - condition still exists

Replaced:-

AFM
Plugs - new
Plug Wires - new
O2 Sensor
Fuel pump - new
Fuel filter (twice) - new
Fuel Rail + AFPR
Injectors (twice)
ECU
Alternator - refurbished

Other thoughts!

Condition seems to occur after 15 mins of driving. Car drives beautifully when cold. I wonder if this could be temperature related?
Bucking seems to be occurring at or around the onset of boost. Could this be knock related?
Still a possibility of fuel contamination BUT the absence of bucking at other rpm ranges and particularly under hard acceleration makes me question this.
Fuel pump is not rewired. Could that cause an issue under light load (insufficient voltage to pump)?

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RedTwo
Rangi Kiwi


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933508 posted 09/22/10 04:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I thought it would be a JDM car but then you started talking about USVR4s which threw me
Why can't you ever have any easy questions?
Your symptoms sound pretty familiar but I've never had them concurrently

The injector sizing *shouldn't* cause the car to throw a CEL. Those are normally electrical rather than mechanical/physical, aren't they?

Bucking could be massive over fuelling or ignition/spark related. You've changed the injectors, fuel pump and filter, and added a AFPR which would all but eliminate over fueling :/ Unless it's the injector seals in the head/fuel rail opening up once they get nice and warm?
Can you increase the engine speed smoothly with minimal/maximum throttle or does it buck no matter how much gas you're giving it?
Leaving any big black clouds behind you when you drive off?
Still running the factory BOV?
The stock fuel pump wiring shouldn't have any issues at lower engine speeds You're not pushing really high boost?

Do you have an alarm with ignition cut out on this car? Have you checked the coil packs/igniter module?

Doesn't the factory ECU pull timing through the entire rev range when it knocks and it keeps timing retarded for quite some time afterward? Or am I getting my factory/Keydiver features confused?

Does the CEL come on as soon as the throttle is closed or only when it's closed and the engine is below ~3500 rpm?

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933645 posted 09/22/10 03:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Paul,

The only things I can suggest are the little things.

Its nearly stock, has the previous owner paid attention to it closely, does the wiring around the t/stat housing feel soft and malleable or is it hard and brittle? Just trying to get a feel here.

If its seem to be temperature dependant then try cleaning up the temp sensor contacts, Where the end of the spade connector looks like [_] try crushing it a bit with pliers and reinstalling it back to the plastic plug so its got a noce tight bond on the tab.

Check the earth between the inlet manifold and the firewall, if thats shitty clean out the threads and renistall, also under the airbox to the inner wing is the battery tie down, give that a damn good clean and reinstall it. That should ballast the electrics properly.

The bov question is valid, but it's more likely to be a breaking down type thing. Have you checked out the injector resistors to see if the pack is still ok.

THe last one is what is the breather system like, is the breather pipe clean or filmed with sludge? Check and clean out the PCV, if thats cakky get into the throttle body. The other one that could be causing issue is a sticky/leaky butterfly bar on the cyclone is there any witness of weepage near the end of that.

The last favourite is leaky crusty vacuum hoses, Check these arount the pressure control solenoid, the boost solenoid and the cyclone canister, make sure they are not perished.

I didn't suggest the ignition leads as youve already changed them, but check their resistances (I have posted these before for the JDM motor) as an indicator of their condition.

Let us know how these things check out. It's most likely to be an age/heat/crud thing you are looking for.

Should keep you going a bit!

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933646 posted 09/22/10 03:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
one last thing is the wax operated thermo valve in the throttle body, was a favourite to get clagged up and cause rough running in all my brothers german obsession cars, and have decoked/declagged these on many cars here. Look for oil sludge/carbon build up on the needle and the valve seat.

Pull the throttle body and drop the servo block off the bottom, You'll be able to see it clearly then. It should be nice and clean and open an close smoothly with the application of warm water through the throttle body. Same mechanism as the thermostat, so could stuck, or those coolant passages blocked, or disconnected.

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

Posts: 1555 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933710 posted 09/22/10 08:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting RedTwo:

I thought it would be a JDM car but then you started talking about USVR4s which threw me
Why can't you ever have any easy questions?
Your symptoms sound pretty familiar but I've never had them concurrently

The injector sizing *shouldn't* cause the car to throw a CEL. Those are normally electrical rather than mechanical/physical, aren't they?

Bucking could be massive over fuelling or ignition/spark related. You've changed the injectors, fuel pump and filter, and added a AFPR which would all but eliminate over fueling :/ Unless it's the injector seals in the head/fuel rail opening up once they get nice and warm?
Can you increase the engine speed smoothly with minimal/maximum throttle or does it buck no matter how much gas you're giving it?
Leaving any big black clouds behind you when you drive off?
Still running the factory BOV?
The stock fuel pump wiring shouldn't have any issues at lower engine speeds You're not pushing really high boost?

Do you have an alarm with ignition cut out on this car? Have you checked the coil packs/igniter module?

Doesn't the factory ECU pull timing through the entire rev range when it knocks and it keeps timing retarded for quite some time afterward? Or am I getting my factory/Keydiver features confused?

Does the CEL come on as soon as the throttle is closed or only when it's closed and the engine is below ~3500 rpm?




Red,

I can answer most of the easy questions myself, I post up here to the higher intelligence when things get beyond me

The injectors are currently correctly sized for the ECU that is in there but as you said whilst it isn't ideal for 450cc and 510cc injectors I don't think it really matters. I'm sure a wideband or logger would pick it up but both sets of injectors seem to idle fine with either ECU.

The injector seals theory is unorthodox but makes sense up to a point, the problem is that after the condition occurs, after parking up and shutting down for a while the problem often disappears. Take this morning. Four minutes into the journey in the tunnel, I am in 5th gear, I run it up to 100 km/h to get into boost and let off the throttle. Car coasts down to 2000 rpms with no issues at all. About 10 minutes later in 3rd going around a roundabout the car starts bucking like a Bronco bull. Get off the roundabout and slow for the traffic lights and CEL comes on around 2000 rpms. Blip the throttle and it goes out. Light constantly came on at every stop including when I stopped in the car park and shut down. 45 minutes later I get back in start her up again, drive home and she doesn't buck or throw a CEL the whole way. 2nd gear, 1500 rpms creeping through the apartment complex car park and she was as good as gold. I just don't get it

Only bucks on part throttle. If you boot it as soon as it hesitates she goes without any problem. No clouds of smoke (you thinking turbo issues?)

Yes still have the stock BOV.

No high boost still on the stock BCS, so what's that 7 psi? I have never had to rewire a fuel pump before so I didn't think that was it.

No alarm on the car, purposely resisted the temptation to fit one until I have all these issues resolved.

I haven't checked the coil packs or igniter modules, how do I do that?

Yes I am pretty sure this isn't knock related because it doesn't seem to have any issues at full throttle.

CEL doesn't come on as soon as you take your foot off the throttle, it comes on as you are coasting down and pass through that 2000-3000 rpm area. Once this condition starts then yes if you are already in that low rpm area then as soon as you ease off the throttle it will come on.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (09/22/10 08:38 PM)

Posts: 7333 | From: East Sussex, U.K. | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (218.250.63.244) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 933715 posted 09/22/10 08:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting misterfixit:

Paul,

The only things I can suggest are the little things.

Its nearly stock, has the previous owner paid attention to it closely, does the wiring around the t/stat housing feel soft and malleable or is it hard and brittle? Just trying to get a feel here.

If its seem to be temperature dependent then try cleaning up the temp sensor contacts, Where the end of the spade connector looks like [_] try crushing it a bit with pliers and reinstalling it back to the plastic plug so its got a nice tight bond on the tab.

Check the earth between the inlet manifold and the firewall, if that's shitty clean out the threads and reinstall, also under the air box to the inner wing is the battery tie down, give that a damn good clean and reinstall it. That should ballast the electrics properly.

The bov question is valid, but it's more likely to be a breaking down type thing. Have you checked out the injector resistors to see if the pack is still ok.

THe last one is what is the breather system like, is the breather pipe clean or filmed with sludge? Check and clean out the PCV, if thats cakky get into the throttle body. The other one that could be causing issue is a sticky/leaky butterfly bar on the cyclone is there any witness of weepage near the end of that.

The last favourite is leaky crusty vacuum hoses, Check these around the pressure control solenoid, the boost solenoid and the cyclone canister, make sure they are not perished.

I didn't suggest the ignition leads as you've already changed them, but check their resistances (I have posted these before for the JDM motor) as an indicator of their condition.

one last thing is the wax operated thermo valve in the throttle body, was a favourite to get clogged up and cause rough running in all my brothers German obsession cars, and have decoked/declogged these on many cars here. Look for oil sludge/carbon build up on the needle and the valve seat.

Pull the throttle body and drop the servo block off the bottom, You'll be able to see it clearly then. It should be nice and clean and open an close smoothly with the application of warm water through the throttle body. Same mechanism as the thermostat, so could stuck, or those coolant passages blocked, or disconnected.

Let us know how these things check out. It's most likely to be an age/heat/crud thing you are looking for.

Should keep you going a bit!

Rich




Rich,

The VIN is E39A-0021298. It is in very good condition in general but I will check the wiring you have suggested. Is there more than one temp sensor, what is the sensor on the left hand side of the block near the intake pipe?

Checking injector resistors to find out if the pack is okay. Is this the same thing Red was asking me to check above or different. If so how do I check. I am really bad with electrics!

I'll check out the intake, throttle body and intake manifold. Vacuum hoses look fine but I'll check again. Same with the tie down and earth. Looks fine but I will check.

Like you said that will keep me going for a few days

Thanks,

Paul



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (09/22/10 08:40 PM)

Posts: 7333 | From: East Sussex, U.K. | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (218.250.63.244) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 944776 posted 10/30/10 09:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Fixed. I couldn't find this thread before so I posted in my original thread here.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!

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