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OK here's an interesting question for the experts.


cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893934 posted 04/28/10 01:02 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I see a lot of engine builds in here using aftermarket parts but we all know that there are a lot of OEM upgrades you can do on these cars due to a great deal of interchangeability of parts. So let us assume that we are NOT trying to build a 600 WHP street fighter or a 10 second drag car. We want instead to put together the best car we can using essentially stock Mitsubishi parts. Assume we will be going with nothing larger than an EVO III 16G turbo (a fairly popular replacement/upgrade turbo) and that power will be under 400 so that we can be sure an essentially stock block can hold the power.

Now I'll throw this open to include more than JUST the engine so popular mods like ABS delete, 4-bolt rear ends and 5 lug swaps can be included. I also won't ban ALL aftermarket parts so if you would insist on ARP hardware, an AFPR or swear by using a Moroso Oil Pan then say so, but we are trying to move away from forged pistons and 'race car parts'.

So things I'm thinking of would be:

Stock block with balance shafts removed
New Pumps, belts and gaskets
2G pistons on 2G or aftermarket rods
Cyclone Manifold
Black Top CAS
HKS Cams in an essentially stock 2G head ported for low-midrange and torque

So what about 3G lifters, titanium retainers and springs, O-ringed head, kevlar belts? Where does extra insurance and preventive maintenance become overkill and an unnecessary expense?

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bazeng
work in progress


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893942 posted 04/28/10 01:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I would go:

Stock block with balance shafts removed
New Pumps, belts and gaskets
Depending on the condition of the block, late model evo pistons and vr4 shot peened rods OR wiseco / eagle type combo. The parts are cheap enough!
Cyclone manifold (will these work on a 2G head????)
Black Top CAS
HKS Cams in an essentially stock 1G head cleaned up
3G lifters
stock retainers if you want to save $
Aftermarket springs
no o-ring, just use a good gasket
gates kevlar belts
New squirter valves to be safe



Australia's Slowest VR4

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Lonewolf64
Obviously the answer is......
889/1000
1247/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893943 posted 04/28/10 01:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You'll want 1g rods vs 2g rods because they are stronger. Another "upgrade" you may consider is a 4g61 head--this can effectively bump up your compression to a little north of 9:1 if you are using a 2g piston/1g rod combination. A stockish head with 3g lifters and a set of 264/264 cams is all you'll ever need on this kind of setup. As for kevlar belts, O-ringed heads, etc. I think that most of this stuff is just a waste of money on a 16g setup.

Aftermarket parts you'll absolutely want on the car:
A solid MBC or EBC to control boost
Fuel upgrades (injectors/fuel pump/AFPR, etc.)
A solid tuning solution, preferably with the ability to tune timing(ECMlink, DSmap, etc.)
A wideband O2 sensor for tuning purposes
Water Temp/Oil pressure gauge with warning light (This is optional, but these are the 2 most stats that tell you about the immediate condition of your engine. It's a great thing to have. Also, the stock water temp gauge is crap)
If you want an extra measure of efficiency and power on a small turbo, you may consider Methanol Injection

Combine that with periphery bolt on mods (like exhaust, intercooler) and a 16g or similar turbo, with the aforementioned 2g piston/1g rod combination and you'll have yourself a dead-nuts reliable vehicle that can easily bust out low 12s at a drag strip and take the kids to school.



1992 Galant VR-4 #889
1991 Galant VR-4 #1247
2007 Civic Si DD

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MitsuDriver274
Member +


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893945 posted 04/28/10 01:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I am currently in the process of building a motor for my daily same power goals, I plan on running something around the size of a 16g.

I took the block to a machine shop, decked the block, bored/honed, new 1g pistons/rings/wristpins (stock oem), had to get a crank kit. New waterpump, front case, balance shafts removed all new bearings seals. I plan on running a little more boost and just for reliability ran arp head studs.

In my opinion 2g pistons may cause more problems... higher compression = more knock prone engine, the higher compression will not make much more power or spool a turbo quicker on the low end.

Picked up BC 272 cams, currently scratching my head on the rest.

Thinkin 650 injectors, supra tt pump, afpr, fmic, 3" exhaust, evo 8 ecu, maybe a gt2876r?
Drivetrain: Evo 3 trans, auto 4 bolt rear end.



"Its not turbo lag, its foreplay" ~Michael Rodzinski
WWU Student, Major: Vehicle Design
2003 Evolution 8 #274 <= Sold to Seamus Burke

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IncorpoRatedX
I'm an idiot...
501/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893951 posted 04/28/10 02:56 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Talk about misinformation...

Quoting cheekychimp:

I see a lot of engine builds in here using aftermarket parts but we all know that there are a lot of OEM upgrades you can do on these cars due to a great deal of interchangeability of parts. So let us assume that we are NOT trying to build a 600 WHP street fighter or a 10 second drag car. We want instead to put together the best car we can using essentially stock Mitsubishi parts. Assume we will be going with nothing larger than an EVO III 16G turbo (a fairly popular replacement/upgrade turbo) and that power will be under 400 so that we can be sure an essentially stock block can hold the power.

Now I'll throw this open to include more than JUST the engine so popular mods like ABS delete, 4-bolt rear ends and 5 lug swaps can be included. I also won't ban ALL aftermarket parts so if you would insist on ARP hardware, an AFPR or swear by using a Moroso Oil Pan then say so, but we are trying to move away from forged pistons and 'race car parts'.

So things I'm thinking of would be:

Stock block with balance shafts removed
New Pumps, belts and gaskets
2G pistons on 2G or aftermarket rods
Cyclone Manifold
Black Top CAS
HKS Cams in an essentially stock 2G head ported for low-midrange and torque

So what about 3G lifters, titanium retainers and springs, O-ringed head, kevlar belts? Where does extra insurance and preventive maintenance become overkill and an unnecessary expense?





-Stock block with balance shafts removed
-New Pumps, belts and gaskets
-2G pistons or evo 8 (easy to get stateside)
on 1G machined rods, aftermarket rods would be over kill and would also need machined

No Cyclone Manifold, mostly useless once the compression has been jacked up

-Black Top CAS, sure, whatever

-264 or at the most cams on completely stock head, springs, valves, retainers, except the 3g lifters because lifter tick is sooooo annoying

-evo 8 injectors, 255 pump

-evo or 2g mass with eprom chip for tuning

2g or evo 3 exhaust manifold
Evo 3 16g
2g or Evo 3 o2 housing

Evo fmic, or mitsubishi fuso fmic, (I ran 12s on one with less that what's in the list above. ) 2g throttle body elbow, 1g bov, stock evo intercooler piping, hacked slightly

2g trans, 4 bolt lsd, 5 lug swap, evo wheels, evo springs and struts, evo brakes, stock pressure plate with a 4 puck

If you can't make 350hp on that set up alone, you fail at life. Seriously.

This isn't fast and the furious, titanium springs.... C'mon? O-ringed head?? You mean o-ring'd block and that is way overkill for a sub 400hp build. kevlar belts, sure, whatever, its your money.



-Joshua Adventure Driven Design
1991 Galant VR-4
1999 Montero "Goldi-Locker"

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cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893962 posted 04/28/10 04:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting cheekychimp:

So what about 3G lifters, titanium retainers and springs, O-ringed head, kevlar belts? Where does extra insurance and preventive maintenance become overkill and an unnecessary expense?




Oh come on Josh. That was supposed to be tongue in cheek I thought you of all people would get that

But every thing else from you and the other guys ... brilliant

This is exactly what I wanted. No holds barred, real life experience, no bull crap. I'm really pleased to see the stuff in there about the rods, cyclone manifold/compression etc.

Baz I'll look into the Cyclone and the 2G head. I was speaking to Chris Beran before and he brought up the idea of a 2G head for better torque and low to midrange power but I don't think I mentioned the idea of using a Cyclone to him. It's an interesting point and one I really hadn't considered so thanks for that.

MitsuDriver 274, I'd be interested to know what this cost you. This idea came about as a result of a couple of things, one of which was comparing the costs of comprehensive preventative maintenance against those of a budget engine rebuild. Obviously machine work makes a difference and again some of it seems to be a case of 'doing it right' like decking the block and some of it luck i.e. can you get away with using standard bores again?

Lonewolf, I really like the idea of the 4G61 head but this issue of compression is doing my head in. I didn't think on a relatively mild build like this it was going to be considered an issue and perhaps the choice of engine management makes a difference here. But even so I see all sorts of references here ranging from negating the benefits of the cyclone manifold, to excessive knock and there being no appreciable benefit to spool up or off boost response. I would have thought there would be a trade off here and that any compression high enough to create tuning issues in boost would make a definite difference to spool up and off boost driveability. No?

Anyone else got opinions on this one?

Josh, I loved your post, but jeez man share some more info. Have you used a cyclone on a higher compression engine and if so what exactly was the result and how did that compare with swapping in a 1G or 2G manifold?

CAS, yeah ok I know opinions are divided, just like with kevlar belts. I'll throw it on, but ok I can see where this is going, the CAS isn't going to make a huge difference here.

EVO/3G MAS is another good call. I forgot about that one.

Is there really no advantage to using aftermarket springs/retainers even on stock valves? I'm talking insurance here, not trying to rev through the roof to make power. And I take it you approve of the 3G lifters?

That's a tidy and comprehensive list though and nice to know that 350 whp isn't really that far away and has already been achieved on mostly stock parts.

Oh, and I fail at life on so many levels, my dyno results are the least of my problems

Edit: on your new clone by the way. That's coming along nicely!


Edited by cheekychimp (04/28/10 04:54 AM)

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CarRacer
Giant Sack of Ginger
83/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893973 posted 04/28/10 06:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The machine work is cheap insurance in my opinion.

I'm running a very conservative build that is very similar to what you are describing. I ended up reusing the stock pistons on the stock bores because the cylinders were still in good condition and didn't require boring to eliminate any scratches or out of round issues. If I did it again, I'd use 2G pistons though. I also had the deck and head surfaces cleaned up so I could use a MLS head gasket. It's way overkill for my setup but I think it provides a good margin for error on my daily driven car. Toss in some arp headstuds and I think my engine will spin for a while even though I romp on it during on ramps.

As for other non internal related stuff, I'm running the 1990 oil filter housing, I deleted the water lines for the turbo and I soldered on the 2g style injector clips. I also shitcanned the fiav water lines to the throttle body and went to a NT thermostat housing with the water line deletion.



James
83/2000

Missed Shift | Auto News

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CutlassJim
poop load of room
1799/2000
1788/2000
935/1000
912/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893976 posted 04/28/10 07:15 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Why do people still not know the flange on a Cyclone intake manifold? It's been around for 20 freaking years, it has 1G style ports.

Cyclone , 1G, Evo 3 manifold.


My current set-up
2G pistons
1G rods
6 bolt crank
4G61 Oil pump
2G head
Evo 3 intake manifold
1G throttle body
Evo 8/9 springs/retainers
Evo 8 intake cam HKS 264 exhaust cam
FP exhaust manifold
EVO 3 turbo and O2
880's
ETS front mount
2G MAF

Car runs 22 psi on 93 pump and I have know idea how much power it makes but it is the fastest car I have ever owned. Including my [email protected] 91 Talon. I would like to think it would be a solid high 11 second car and seriously think it could do low 12's on pump. It walks on my friends 12.7 LS1 Camaro.

I can't really comment on if the 2G head was a huge factor in the power my motor is making as I did everything at once but I can certainly tell you its not "choking" the motor in the slightest. The car makes GREAT power the second it comes on boost all the way to it's 7500rpm redline. Oh I also have my 22psi at 3k flat.

EDIT: Oh yeah since it seems to be coming up in the thread. Car runs on a stock head gasket and stock timing belt. I'm too busy beating the crap outta my car and actually enjoying it then "collecting parts" like most people I see.



ALL DSM's are advanced and ALL Evo's retarded
I love my crazy mother!!!


Edited by CutlassJim (04/28/10 07:20 AM)

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IncorpoRatedX
I'm an idiot...
501/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893987 posted 04/28/10 08:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was really hoping you were joking lol, must be my american sense of humor

And good call on the evo 8 springs/retainers, throw evo 8 valves in this mix too. Better all around.



-Joshua Adventure Driven Design
1991 Galant VR-4
1999 Montero "Goldi-Locker"

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dsm_drew
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893991 posted 04/28/10 08:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
EVO 8 springs and retainers can be used for a cheap upgrade/replacement as well.

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893992 posted 04/28/10 08:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evo 8 valvetrain, 2G head, Evo 3 intake manifold, Evo 3 pistons, 1G Rods, ARP hardware for the rods and headstuds, Mitsu MLS headgasket, stock crank. OEM timing, front case, etc.

Evo 3 turbo, Evo 3 exhaust manifold, aftermarket or Evo 3 o2 housing (I just don't like the angle of the o2 housing).

Also go with Kelford TX-264 cams. Higher valve lift and it acts more like a rally cam than an HKS. Kelford > * cams.



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)


Edited by JSchleim18 (04/28/10 08:46 AM)

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broxma
retard monkey strength
379/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893993 posted 04/28/10 09:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Many of you, some of you who have read my build post, know how many Evo parts I have put in my rebuild. It was my own secret agenda to do so.

Evo VII/IX pistons, Springs, retainers, valves, ECU, wheels, injectors, MAS...interior...wing...I have toyed with trying to replicate the Evo Serpentine belt system as well just for kicks. The Twin scroll Evo exhaust again, bolts up, but the turbo hits the block in the normal position and spun around, the O2 hits the lateral brace. I am still moving forward with the twin scroll manifold as posted in another post, regardless of you people. I honestly think a bolt on kit can be made but I won't make it.

Side note - Evo pistons on the 1G rods make sense under only a few conditions. The pistons are free or, the come with good rings or, the machine work is free. If you pay for all of that like I did, you're better off going forged. This is a situation where an OEM upgrade does not make financial sense. I am assuming JS is correct that the EvoIII pistons are better than factory 1G so that may be the best route in fact for slugs.

I agree with the assessment of the post above mine.

/brox



I am big into recycling though and if your not into sacrifice or burnt offerings, you may want to stick with 93 octane.

/brox

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 893996 posted 04/28/10 09:02 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Reason I say the Evo III pistons is because they may be more readily available by Paul's region. I have also heard they are 9.0:1 compression.



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)

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belize1334
well bread and nobly conceived
1334/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894048 posted 04/28/10 11:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Some people may remember that for a little while I was investigating the possibility of building a stroker with all OEM parts. The limiting factor is pistons. If you use a G4cs block then the wrist-pins don't need to be moved but it's basically impossible to find OE replacement pistons at .060 overbore. I did find, eventually, that the 4b11 pistons are 86mm to begin wtih, so 20 and 40 over would be stock and 20 over wrt the g4cs block. The problem then is that the deck height is wrong so the compression would be all wonky. But, since a 1G rod would have to be machined to fit, I figure you could machine the whole off-center to effectively move the wrist pin and get the compression you want. You'd have to measure the dome volume and determine whether it was possible. My preliminary investigations indicated that it MAY be. The other issue is that those pistons are full-floating design so I don't know if the rods could be adapted or if custom wrist-pins can be used to convert to semi-floating.

Edit: It seems like it may also be possible to run the n/a 4g64 pistons out of the '95 DOHC 4g64. They have the same wrist pin config as 2G so could be adapted to 1G rods and since they're DOHC there'd be no need to worry about valve clearance. The problem here is the same one that comes up when people run N/A 4g63 pistons. They're pretty tough but they won't stand up to knock like a turbo piston. And they're 10:1 cr so the tune would have to be conservative.



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green


Edited by belize1334 (04/28/10 12:23 PM)

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Lonewolf64
Obviously the answer is......
889/1000
1247/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894050 posted 04/28/10 12:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting cheekychimp:

Quoting cheekychimp:

So what about 3G lifters, titanium retainers and springs, O-ringed head, kevlar belts? Where does extra insurance and preventive maintenance become overkill and an unnecessary expense?





Lonewolf, I really like the idea of the 4G61 head but this issue of compression is doing my head in. I didn't think on a relatively mild build like this it was going to be considered an issue and perhaps the choice of engine management makes a difference here. But even so I see all sorts of references here ranging from negating the benefits of the cyclone manifold, to excessive knock and there being no appreciable benefit to spool up or off boost response. I would have thought there would be a trade off here and that any compression high enough to create tuning issues in boost would make a definite difference to spool up and off boost driveability. No?





I think the only time you see issues like that is when you can't properly control ignition timing maps with your tuning solution. If you can control timing, then it is possible to turn the boost up to where it needs to be, while backing off the aggressive stock 1g timing maps. Also, if you are interested in either squeezing all the power out of your setup, or would just rather have a large safety net, you can add water/methanol injection into the mix which will lower charge temperature and effectively raise the octane of your fuel simultaneously. Many members of the board currently run methanol injection and I'm sure would readily answer any questions you have about it.

Personally my ideal setup (which is currently in the works) is a 16g sized turbo (FP68hta), mild block (2g pistons, 1g rods, 3g lifters, 264 HKS cams), with all the standard bolt on mods, and the addition of methanol injection courtesy of my AEM progressive injection kit. The only potential "weakness" in my setup is my relatively primitive tuning solution. I will be using a DTEC-Pro (comparable to a SAFC, but more advanced), Apexi Super-ITC (timing control), and keydiver chip for tuning. The reason I think I won't see any significant issues in tuning is because even though my tuning hardware is not ideal, I *do* have control over timing and fuel, which will allow me to circumvent knocking issues when turning up the boost due to an inability to back of timing maps that are too aggressive for higher-than-stock boost levels.

The goal is to run as much boost and timing as the setup can make on pump/meth without knock. The car will be street driven, but obviously not a daily driver. I don't foresee many reliability problems because of the simplicity of the build. No fancy-pants parts are being used in the block, and the only "special" part is methanol injection which, if anything, is a good safety net and power adder as long as there are no hiccups in its operation.



1992 Galant VR-4 #889
1991 Galant VR-4 #1247
2007 Civic Si DD

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Olson
Pwnd by Rance.
338/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894059 posted 04/28/10 12:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Theres alot fo good ideas in here.
my combo wouold be
shaved crank
1g big rods
not sure on pistons but i have ross 20 over pistons
hyundai elentra 1.8 head (it has the good of the 1g head and the 2g head while bumpin compresion)
evo 8 springs and retainers
3g lifters
280 cams
port match / clean it up.
Evo 3 intake / exhaust manifolds
tubular w/external dump o2
wide band
larger fmic
gm 3inch maf/translater
16g
dsm link
walbro 250
950 fic's
2600 act
Devils own meth
profit



338/2000
05 TDI Wagon
88 Raider

"Oh, and if you want to build your status and rank, go play some WoW. Come back when you're ready to talk cars". Qship


Edited by Olson (04/28/10 12:34 PM)

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JSchleim18
Minor 69er
1157/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894063 posted 04/28/10 12:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ummm why would you use such a large cam?

You're not going to make power until 5,000 RPM and the Evo 16G isn't going to keep running up to 10K.



-Jeremy
A88 Summit White - CD (No Sunroof)

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MitsuDriver274
Member +


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894082 posted 04/28/10 01:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Machine work is key, I put a motor together last year. Gave the motor to a different machinist and told him to check everything and make the motor like new. Didn't plasti guage the mains or rods, and ended up with a 6k motor.

I don't know how necessary different pistons are, I made close to 250whp (~305 crank) in my old rally car, Stock motor (but rebuilt very nicely) and it held up for over 2 years of racing.

I don't even know if arp fasteners are necessary for a build that will be producing under 400, I just did it for insurance. And you could probably do fine on the stock cams.

I don't see why everyone runs 2g pistons, does the higher compression really make that much of a difference? Wouldn't a shorter piston skirt, and higher compression ratio make for a more knock prone engine? I don't see that as a good trade off for a little more power. Or do the 2g pistons hold substantially more power? I don't know if the extra money for the pistons and the cost of the machine work (to fit the 1g rods) make the gains in power worth it.



"Its not turbo lag, its foreplay" ~Michael Rodzinski
WWU Student, Major: Vehicle Design
2003 Evolution 8 #274 <= Sold to Seamus Burke


Edited by MitsuDriver274 (04/28/10 01:45 PM)

Posts: 319 | From: Bellingham, WA | Member Since: 01/20/04 | IP: (76.121.120.212) | Report this post to a Moderator

belize1334
well bread and nobly conceived
1334/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894088 posted 04/28/10 02:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think that the increased compression is a marginal affect when you're looking for max power but it doesn't change the dynamics of the power range a bit. Turbo spool is slightly improved as is off-boost response. It will also help you milk a little more out of a given turbo. So, if you don't care much about lag and you are willing to move up to the next bigger turbo then it's a bit of a waste...but if you're at the limit of your 16g and want just a little more power and a little better response then the bumped compression will get you there.



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green

Posts: 3312 | From: Dundee, Scotland, UK | Member Since: 11/18/03 | IP: (72.175.129.84) | Report this post to a Moderator

IncorpoRatedX
I'm an idiot...
501/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894089 posted 04/28/10 02:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
speaking from experience, i've driven 1g pistons with small and large turbos, 2g piston 6 bolts and stock 7 bolts with small and large turbos and evo's, the slight compression difference, makes a HUGE around town difference, 2g pistons or evo's you can let the clutch out and the car will begin to go on its own power, with 1g pistons, the low compression means you need to get on the pedal sooner to the the rpm's up, a lot less "off idle" torque with the 7.8:1 pistons vs the others. Loved driving the evo around town, obviously there's a lot variables, but the lack of low end torque is noticeable.



-Joshua Adventure Driven Design
1991 Galant VR-4
1999 Montero "Goldi-Locker"

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CutlassJim
poop load of room
1799/2000
1788/2000
935/1000
912/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894207 posted 04/28/10 08:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^ +1



ALL DSM's are advanced and ALL Evo's retarded
I love my crazy mother!!!

Posts: 1586 | From: Manchester, NH | Member Since: 07/17/06 | IP: (71.168.64.116) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894311 posted 04/29/10 04:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
For everyone that has replied, thank you. This has turned into an awesome thread and has really changed my perspective on engine rebuilds. The information you guys have at your disposal as a collective is pretty damn amazing and your opinions as to what options work and why they work are just as useful.

As I have said already, I really started delving into this because I realized that after you have paid to replace all the parts, gaskets, pumps, seals etc to do comprehensive preventive maintenance (plus in my case paid for the labour), you are not that far off the price of a budget engine rebuild.

Cutless Jim, Jschleim18 and Lonewolf64, you have really opened my eyes on a few more issues and thanks to Broxma and Josh for sharing new insight on what seems to be an ever increasing catalog of parts from the EVO VIII which can be considered. I was really interested to see the mention of the FP68HTA too. I've been looking at that turbo a lot recently and wondering not only what it would be like on the 2.0 litre but also how it would run on a 2.3 stroker seeing as it flows more than an 18G. It seems like it would spool like a demon but still flow enough up top to give a broad spread of power. I also have plenty of stuff left over from the other build to rig up a simple water/alcohol injection setup which makes the idea of using higher compression very attractive.

I am still very interested to see if higher compression and the Cyclone manifold could be used in unison to create good results. I thought the Cyclone flowed enough up top to compete with 1G and 2G intakes in which case I would have thought the butterflies could only help with low end torque, but 21 psi at 3K makes it seem a bit pointless to bother trying, UNLESS the Cyclone CAN improve upon that.

Belize1334, I do remember your posts and I was really interested in your progress but unfortunately it is something I'll never be able to use here because I am prohibited by law from using anything other than a 4G63 block. Thanks again though to you and Josh for confirming the benefits of higher compression and perhaps one way to save some money here might be to swap over the DSMLink from my other car to tune timing and fuel maps and then have Jeff burn a chip with those settings to avoid the need to buy DSMLink again. Using a 1G or 2G intake would make things easier here as DSMLink doesn't work with the Cyclone unless you rig up another method to activate the butterflies.

I think I'm sold on this. I have two JDM blocks sitting around at Ken's shop just wasting space. Time to get them dipped and machined and then start thinking about a sensible budget rebuild option for the stock car which can be done locally.

THANK YOU

Posts: 7333 | From: East Sussex, U.K. | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (116.48.200.187) | Report this post to a Moderator

curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
Space Blanket from NASA plumbed into the attic
475/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894329 posted 04/29/10 07:40 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
Greenhouse Effect Green
Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

Posts: 11892 | From: Clarksville TN | Member Since: 05/04/03 | IP: (208.95.177.176) | Report this post to a Moderator

Struc
Not all filled in


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894386 posted 04/29/10 11:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting belize1334:

Edit: It seems like it may also be possible to run the n/a 4g64 pistons out of the '95 DOHC 4g64. They have the same wrist pin config as 2G so could be adapted to 1G rods and since they're DOHC there'd be no need to worry about valve clearance. The problem here is the same one that comes up when people run N/A 4g63 pistons. They're pretty tough but they won't stand up to knock like a turbo piston. And they're 10:1 cr so the tune would have to be conservative.




Just want to correct this info slightly.

The 1994 Galant GS (not 1995) was the only DOHC 4G64, and yes, the pistons were 10:1 compression ratio.

There are some other NA pistons that could be used, however. The SOHC 4G64's pistons work as well. Most of those (94-98 Galant, 96-99 Spyder) have 9.5:1 compression, which is what I have on my turbo'ed Spyder. There are also some CA spec 4G64's that came with 9.0:1 compression pistons. They (none of them) are built as strong as the turbo pistons, however (thinner dome, different ring land positions), so keeping a perfect tune, and lower boost (10-15psi max, depending on setup) is pretty vital to piston life.



Curt Shambeau
92 GVR4 56/1000 (SOLD)
09 Lancer Ralliart (SOLD)
96 Spyder GS(t) (SOLD) - My 4G64 Spyder Website
1987 Montero SWB (Wideblock 4g64 build in progress)


Edited by Struc (04/29/10 11:40 AM)

Posts: 764 | From: Oconomowoc, WI | Member Since: 11/24/08 | IP: (63.131.96.78) | Report this post to a Moderator

Street Surgeon
Professor Street Surgeon
501/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 894422 posted 04/29/10 12:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
My factory freak GVR4 build would be...

Head: 2G head with....
94 Galant GS cams (for the mitsu build) or FP 1's or 2's
3G lifters
Evo 8/9 beehive springs, seats, retainers
Evo 8/9 rockers
Evo 8/9 valves with a 3-way valvejob (to keep it on the cheap)
OEM evo III intake manifold port matched
Do some light work on the bowls and clean up the casting flash... Done.

Block:
Polish the inside of the block (yes you read that correctly)
Evo9 pistons with OEM rings etc. (cryo'd)
6-bolt 1G rods, cryo'd, shotpeened, balanced, ARP rod bolts, polished perhaps (*again* yes you read that right)
OEM Balance Shaft elimination kit
OEM uncut crank (cryo if you're feeling frisky)
ACL tri metal race bearings
Fluidampr crank damper/pulley
Lightweight aluminum accessory pullies
OEM metal headgasket with ARP headstuds

Turbo, Accessories, Intake and Exhaust:
Ported Evo III exhaust manifold
Ported Evo III O2 housing
FP 20G6SL2
3" SS downpipe
3" SS testpipe
3" SS catback (3" inlet, dual outlets of course)
ETS FMIC kit
ETS intake pipe
Evo9 recirc valve

Fuel:
Walbro 255lph
ID 1000cc injectors
Aeromotive AFPR

Electronics:
Evo MAF
ECMlink v3
or
Evo 8 ECU with Evo 8 boost control solenoid running speed density patch?

Drivetrain:
Shep Stg4 trans or TRE stg3
Competition clutch (2600 equivalent)
Chromoly flywheel
3speed scattershield

Brakes:
3kGT brakes
SS lines
DOT6 fluid

Misc:
Modified factory oil pan with some baffles and larger sump
All new OEM belts, with OEM tensioners etc, OEM waterpump, all new OEM maintenance stuff



Cory O.
'92 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 501/1000
Heavily modified, barely driven, some assembly required.


Edited by Street Surgeon (04/29/10 12:47 PM)

Posts: 941 | From: Omaha, Nebraska | Member Since: 03/03/04 | IP: (131.43.10.35) | Report this post to a Moderator


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