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my poor brain and datalogers!


misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 379857 posted 09/08/06 06:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hi all. I just need to ask this as I'm stumped as to how to go forward.



It's a palm m100, and a hotsync station, the cable is this:


Loads of people mention com errors. But I can't get that far!

It just does nothing. MMCd will cycle through the inputs when you ask for a new log, but finds nothing. No com errors. no messages, nothing.

I plug in the cable to the daig' port. and pull 12v from a fuse location, the led lights on the cable. But nada.

Am I missing something?

Please help!

Rich.



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 379860 posted 09/08/06 06:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is it the Palm OS 3.5.1 or higher?
When you start the log and it cycles through the inputs, mine will automatically go in to pause mode if it doesn't see any data. Does yours?
In the test mode can you run the fuel pump or turn off the injectors?

Just a few simple things to try.


Edited by powerplay (09/08/06 06:39 AM)

Posts: 2054 | From: Norwell, MA | Member Since: 07/24/04 | IP: (71.232.41.40) | Report this post to a Moderator

misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 379868 posted 09/08/06 07:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
mine automatically pauses.
palm os 3.5.3

How do you find test mode?

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index


Edited by misterfixit (09/08/06 07:13 AM)

Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

powerplay
Yes Man
525/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 379872 posted 09/08/06 07:14 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Click on the MMCd logo at the top before you enter the logging screen. Right after you start the program. There are 2 pull down menus there. Test and debug and under the options is where you set up your preferences etc. Be sure to check the communications speed as our cars are 1953 and it should be set for DSM.


Edited by powerplay (09/08/06 07:16 AM)

Posts: 2054 | From: Norwell, MA | Member Since: 07/24/04 | IP: (71.232.41.40) | Report this post to a Moderator

Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 379903 posted 09/08/06 08:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What's the part no. of your ECU, or in other word do you have a single PCB ECU? Dual-board ECU, which is very common among early RHD VR4s, doesn't work with any free dataloggers available

If you do have a single board ECU - try to build a simple cable like this



1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

Posts: 641 | From: Pokfulam, Hong Kong | Member Since: 08/10/03 | IP: (218.103.199.159) | Report this post to a Moderator

misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380268 posted 09/08/06 11:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
md165808,

I'll try the simple lead, had an incarnation of that that didn't work so i pulled it to pieces. I'll try again as the ere are two diffrences!

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380279 posted 09/09/06 12:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
MD165808 is a single PCB ECU, and it works well with datalogging (I have one and tried myself)

Before you start logging anything you may try the 'test' mode, which could be accessed in menu pull down menu, to check whether you can connect with your ECU / get your ECU into diagnostic mode

Good luck with your datalogging adventure

Yiuwa



1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

Posts: 641 | From: Pokfulam, Hong Kong | Member Since: 08/10/03 | IP: (203.34.154.24) | Report this post to a Moderator

s_firestone
Ctrl-Alt-Boost
918/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380335 posted 09/09/06 08:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Could be that MMCd is logging but no parameters are enabled or no parameters are being displayed.

You can toggle each sensor on/off as well toggle which to display. Tap on the left side of the parameter to enable/disable logging for that particular parameter. Tap on the right to enable/disable the display for that parameter on the graph.

Also make sure the "log" box is checked otherwise MMCd will not log anything.

Since your not throwing an error nor pausing then the logger is probably happy with the connectivity and data from the ECU. If the pda or datalogger circuit was disconnected or had no power you would get a comm error. If the datalogger circuit was wired incorrectly(TX/RX reversed), unable to communicate properly with the ECU, or ECU diag mode not enabled, you would likely get an ECU comm error.



Stephen Firestone
1992 GVR4 #918 of 1K

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380344 posted 09/09/06 09:11 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yiuwa, many thanks!!!

It works! md165808 and md152613 (my e35a 1800) Now time to try and log it.

With MMCd what can I do and not do? I can see the error codes and clear them, I can kill the injectors in turn. (no egr so I can not switch that) Lots to play with.

On the log it creates a graph, of what i select, but the five tabs (1,2,3,4,h) only 1 and H show anything. Is this correct?

Rich


Edited by misterfixit (09/09/06 09:19 AM)

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Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380439 posted 09/09/06 06:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good to know that it works for you

1,2,3 and 4 corresponds to pages of parameters that you can select (click) for monitoring/logging. You may go through them and pick things you want. Please note that there are things that aren't exactly relevant to our cars (e.g. fuel pump). Also your MD165808 is running on E952 based chip, which makes you H/M/L fuel trims always shown as 100% as they are logged in different addresses from those running on E931/E943 based chips. Check with information on the net for detail

H - if you click that it 'hides' all the unselected parameters so that you don't have to go through pages of things you are not interested in. In order words if you 'unclick' H you can see what's on the page 2,3 & 4

In addition to graph mode you can also switch to numerical mode where up to 4 things can be shown in large numbers (which is a feature available in new versions available)

Enjoy!

Yiuwa


Edited by Yiuwa (09/09/06 06:41 PM)

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380506 posted 09/10/06 01:36 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Cheers Yiuwa!

What shold the "map" read?

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380599 posted 09/10/06 03:36 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
|Sorry, have now done a log and am looking through sensors to try to understand why I've caned £40 98ron. in fuel in 3 days ($70!)

Map i see is an expanded sensor. Which O2 sensor should be moving and voltage range? o2-f is at 2.5 volts constant, o2-r moves from 0.04v @warmup to between 0.00v and 0.9v when running.

Anything else I should keep an eye on. (no error codes, just high fuel usage!)

Cheers

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380679 posted 09/10/06 09:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I assume you are talking about your car having bad fuel milage....

You should look at O2-R for oxygen sensor reading of our cars

As none of you fuel trim being properly logged (E952 chip), it's difficult to tell your air/fuel mix condition. You may try to get a rough picture on it via the O2 reading. If you are getting something around 0.9V consistantly in WOT your O2 sensor should be OK. On the other hand if it's always lower than that your O2 sensor may be faulty, and it keep reporting to your ECU the engine is running lean, which in turn pump more fuel into combustion chambers

There are lots of other possibilities...but O2 sensor is always a good place to start. Search the board for datalogger info and fuel consumption posts

Yiuwa



1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

Posts: 641 | From: Pokfulam, Hong Kong | Member Since: 08/10/03 | IP: (218.103.199.159) | Report this post to a Moderator

misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380743 posted 09/11/06 12:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have. I'll look for the wot condition as it was a long log and it had all kinds of conditions on it. It's an early jdm so it has a singlewire o2 sensor.

Can MMCd be changed to read the JDM fuel trims?

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
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Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

Yiuwa
Right-hand Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380765 posted 09/11/06 04:09 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Probably, but that information is yet to be documented in internet

Good luck

Yiuwa



1992 RHD Hong Kong ver E39A

Posts: 641 | From: Pokfulam, Hong Kong | Member Since: 08/10/03 | IP: (218.103.199.159) | Report this post to a Moderator

borat
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380767 posted 09/11/06 05:11 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Rich, from what you've posted, it looks like your main O2 sensor is dead. As you know, normally this would cause really crappy mpg (it did when it went out on my car). A dead o2 sensor will always read at a constant voltage and will never cycle. Also, did you mean to say 2.5v constant, or 0.25v? The reason I ask is that narrowband o2 sensors read from 0 to 1v, so if you did mean 2.5v, there's the culprit right there.

The only strange thing is that I was sure o2-f was the main o2 sensor located in the o2 housing/turbo elbow, and o2-r was the (basically defunct) one in the center pipe which everyone shorts-out anyway when the remove the cat. However, according to Yiowa it's the other way round ? Surely o2-f stands for 'front' and o2-r for 'rear'? For me, the simple fact that o2-f is not cycling and you're getting ridiculous petrol milage is the final give away.

I could be wrong though, as I use TMO for logging which IMO is a much better and easier to use program (not least because you dont have to sod around with those damn crappy Palms).

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 380910 posted 09/11/06 12:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I remember the conversations re fuel milage for yours Borat. And those topics pointed me to logging to try to find the root.

I think the o2-f and o2-r are for the front and rear banks on a v6. mmcd is set up for both 4 and 6 pot but there are settings hidden all over the place.

It's a narrrow band o2 sensor, the test data in the jdm and edm service manual correspond to this. Second o2 sensor you mention in the exhaust is a k-type thermocouple that tells the ecu that the cat is up to temp. hence you should put a 15ohm load on it when the cat is pulled so the ecu will see that the "cat" is at temp. Need some largish resistors as the wire gauge down there is quite big there. Anyways back to topic.

I'm running through the log to look for the service conditions so I can see the sensor characteristic, but It would be cool to point the logger at the fuel trims so I can see if it is thinking it's running lean Like Yiuwa says. MMCd is pretty portable, and the palm sits nicely in the centre pocket under the armrest when not in use. + it cost like £15 from a workmate! and the passenger seat is empty!

I have a laptop but it's not gotten close to the car yet. Is it TMO that you can adjust where the logger looks?

It seems that the 02 sensor is pretty active, so I'll just hae to work through everything slowly! Thanks all for you help so far!

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
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Posts: 1548 | From: Midlands, UK | Member Since: 08/04/04 | IP: (83.67.97.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

NZVR4
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 550329 posted 10/18/07 01:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
RE getting the fueltrims to read from E952, keydiver and myself (mainly him) had a look at this, and it seems the code does not allow them to update. When I get some more time, I will test out some code changes to see if its possible.

Anyone able to link me to the website with intructions on how to mod 5808/JDM ecu's to run E931 code?

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