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car will only run for 4 seconds and caps are good


tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232685 posted 10/20/16 06:55 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
bought a parts car for with motor and other go fast bits for my galant. 93 talon turbo awd with socketed and chipped ecu with GM Maf and translator. initial issue was no spark, CAS replaced. -> car starts but only runs for 2 sec. ECU caps investigated and appeared to be good so I double checked with a fresh ECM link socketed board with fresh caps and stock tune...same result. Found O2 sensor unplugged...same result. found a vacuum leak (at the stock maf) and fixed, car now runs for ~4sec. any ideas? to be noted, I have no idea what tune if any this car has.
some specs on the motor/setup:
precision 1000cc injectors
precision 5557e turbo
fresh NGK spark plugs
vent to atmosphere BOV
...not sure what else to add

Any ideas?





I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232687 posted 10/20/16 08:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Are you getting fuel?



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232688 posted 10/20/16 08:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Getting fuel at all? I must be getting some for it to run, however I do not know how much. Are you thinking fuel pressure check?



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232690 posted 10/20/16 09:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Possibly. I'd lean more toward a tuning issue. Do you know what the chip is coded for? How are you tuning the car, with the chip only?



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


152/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232691 posted 10/20/16 09:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
just cause your getting fuel doesnt mean you getting enough fuel, or for that matter enough spark. what do the plugs look like? i know there new, but what did they look like after a few fires. did you pull the injectors and check the pintles?

also stock MAF + vent to atmosphere = big no no.



138/2000
152/1000


Edited by transparentdsm (10/20/16 09:20 PM)

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232693 posted 10/21/16 01:00 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Not stock maf, gm maf with translator. Nothing fuel related has been checked. same for spark plugs since the initial 2 starts or so. As far as tuning I picked up the vehicle as is from someone else a few days ago so I do not know what is on the chip for the tune. That being said I have an ecm link v3 also and the cable so I can switch to that since it has a stock tune loaded currently iirc. I'll be Starting with fuses and fuel pressure check(can't currently hear fuel pump prime or anything so...???) over the next couple days and I'll move from there and keep posting updates...

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232764 posted 10/24/16 01:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
so I had to put time towards some other projects for storage around the house and time towards my Datsun which is non-moving/broken in the driveway, but! I did check fuses which were good and I moved forward with getting a fuel pressure test kit from Oreilly's. I am unfamiliar with the specifications for fuel pressure on the car and if it is running an aftermarket pump will those factory pressure specifications be relevant? I will check plugs, take pics, clean plugs, run a few more times and take pics again. I will include what I find in the fuel pressure check also.



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232797 posted 10/25/16 01:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
you can see that the spark plug seems to be quite black which I see as a sign of running rich(correct?). That being said I do not know what kind of O2 sensor is installed on the car whether it be wideband or other, but there is no gauge for it so that I could see what the AFR is. I could switch from the current ECU to the ECM link to monitor that I am guessing? I have never tuned anything before but done some research into it.

Other changes are that fuel pressure was checked and at around 42-44 psi but I was unable to get consistent readings off of the fuel pressure test kit. fyi: the kit was attached at the fuel filter banjo bolt on the firewall.

Since I assumed this supposed rich condition was caused by a stock tune with 1000cc injectors I pulled the fuel rail and replaced with a known good factory set with no change in running characteristics. I am going to do some small things tonight like make sure that there is plenty of fuel in the tank since I do not know if the sending unit is working or not. any other suggestions?



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
866/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232798 posted 10/25/16 01:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
DSMLink will give you an "estimated AFR" from the stock o2 sensor. Although, you can also install a wide-band and run it without the gauge, but that would still need to be wired in and calibrated for it to read correctly in link.



Thom
866/1000 (PTE 1200's, billet 20g+, DSMLink v3, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's, GC/AGX Coilovers)

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232934 posted 10/28/16 08:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Jumper the fuel pump test connector. I had an ecu that wouldn't turn on the fuel pump, but since the key does that while cranking it would always start then die.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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brisvr4
Oceania Distict Enforcer for the Galant VR4 Mafia


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232947 posted 10/29/16 04:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Also check the coolant temp sensor that the ecu uses.
If it's dead it will default to a temp in the negatives and the Ecu will over fuel the motor causing it to start then stall.



Tim
1992 Auspec
11.37 @ 131.46 - E85 goodness and stock block!
Official Australian home of the Ugh decal!

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1232992 posted 10/30/16 08:15 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
jepherz, I am not familiar with the fuel pump test connector. will it be obvious when I get it out? Also, wouldn't this not be the case if a second ecu ran the same way?

brisvr4, on the thermostat housing (1st gen eclipse thermostat housing fyi) the upper temperature sensor was replaced because it was physically destroyed, this resulted in no change however. That being said I do not know which one is used by the gauge and which is used by the ecu. can u tell by the different connectors I am guessing?



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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brisvr4
Oceania Distict Enforcer for the Galant VR4 Mafia


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233011 posted 10/30/16 11:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's the temp sensor on the front of the housing. It has 2 pins.



Tim
1992 Auspec
11.37 @ 131.46 - E85 goodness and stock block!
Official Australian home of the Ugh decal!

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donniekak
Member ++


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233022 posted 10/31/16 09:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Put the link Ecu in the car. You'll be able to see the sensor data, and won't just be randomly swapping parts. I'm betting it's just a bad tune from the mystery EPROM chip and maft.

Posts: 747 | From: surprise az | Member Since: 01/01/09 | IP: (97.124.17.161) | Report this post to a Moderator

tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233040 posted 10/31/16 01:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ill put the link in and see what happens. also it looks like the large black orings arent on the end of the 1000cc injectors so I will fix that.



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233145 posted 11/04/16 10:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ECM link is in the car and reading data (my 1st time ever using the program) stream shows accurate coolant temp close to oustside air temp on cold start, however stream also shows 5 deg timing when off and ~40deg timing @2500-3krpm. Also front O2 reads 0.06v constant. Timing seems off and O2 voltage suggests bad O2 sensor to me, thoughts?

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marvinmadman
Senior Member
136/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233147 posted 11/05/16 12:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Double check the wires on the MAFT harness. They can work themselves loose.



1982/2000 sold
1263/2000 parts
136/1000 work n progress
08 ZX14
10 Ford Flex TT/AWD
05 Galant GTS

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transparentdsm
I have to say something dumb Member
138/2000


152/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233149 posted 11/05/16 07:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
is the CAS properly installed?? maybe it was installed 180 degrees off??



138/2000
152/1000

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MuffinMan7580
Member
570/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233153 posted 11/05/16 12:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Which MAS is plugged in? I'd try using a stock 1g MAS, and disconnecting the GM MAF. If the car is starting and then turning off, the CAS is getting a signal to the ECU, which is what turns the fuel pump on, not the key. However, the CAS may still be installed wrong. There's a dot on one ear of the CAS, make sure that it is towards the firewall when the motor is at TDC (make sure the crank and cams are aligned correctly.

If the car didn't have any tuning solution other than the MAFT, and then the injectors without any o-rings, then you could be dealing with a lot of work to correct from someone who didn't know what they were doing. It sounds like you may have better luck with posting logs from Link and getting help from others with a little more direction.



'91 Dark Cherry Talon TSI AWD-35R-->Sold
'91 Red Talon TSI AWD-EVO 3 16g
'92 GVR4 #570/1000-Project Daily Driver-HY35-->Under the knife
'95 Toyota Pickup-Practicality at its finest
'01 CBR600F4i-The Toy

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marvinmadman
Senior Member
136/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233157 posted 11/05/16 01:18 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'd also get the GM MAF direct connection harness from ECMLINK to eliminate the MAFT. Then use the built in features within Link.



1982/2000 sold
1263/2000 parts
136/1000 work n progress
08 ZX14
10 Ford Flex TT/AWD
05 Galant GTS

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Breakerrr
Junior Member
1512/2000
362/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233272 posted 11/08/16 03:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No offense, but you're all over the place. For instance you said you think the o2 sensor is bad because it is resting at .06 volts. That's normal while in open-loop operation. If you're not sure what open loop operation is? Continue reading... what you need to do now is stop. First download a copy of the Mitsubishi service manual and read the section marked fuel. Familiarize yourself with how the ECU is working. Second check for Boost leaks (a common symptom of boost leak is an initial start and immediately cutting off). Third follow the diagnostic steps set forth in the manual 2 eliminate common problems.


Also: you can check/ turn on your fuel pump with link. You can also check your base timing by grounding out the timing pin using link.

The biggest thing is follow the service manual you'll save yourself a TON of time effort and money



Read The Instructions

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233291 posted 11/09/16 09:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
thanks for the info breakerrr. I will stop/start there. I have learned more since the O2 sensor post but not enough to completely solve the problem.



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

Posts: 36 | From: Cheney, wa | Member Since: 12/21/12 | IP: (65.158.200.194) | Report this post to a Moderator

tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233367 posted 11/11/16 09:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
made some progress, made a boost leak tester, did a boost/air leak test from the intake elbow back for starters found many leaks more coming soon after the FSM is read



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

Posts: 36 | From: Cheney, wa | Member Since: 12/21/12 | IP: (65.158.200.194) | Report this post to a Moderator

Breakerrr
Junior Member
1512/2000
362/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233387 posted 11/12/16 12:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good work on finding/fixing boost leaks, and reading the FSM. I still catch myself trying to skirt putting in the effort to hunt down hard to find leaks, like I've been cured of them or something. We invest so much time, effort, and money into our cars, leaking HP just isn't acceptable. When you work through the fuel system "service adjustment procedures" you will most likely tidy up several issues that may be small by themselves but add up to equal one big problem or set of problems. Even if everything is found to be good then its one giant check mark you can put next to a list of variables that could be the causing the problem. Sometimes it looks like a huge task but working through the procedures earns peace of mind and reliability not to mention the experience of really learning what the path from air filter to muffler looks like. Once you learn that... setting up your fuel trims with ECMLINK will make more sense to you, but that's a separate topic.



Read The Instructions

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tacolibre
Smooth Plunger
15/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1233809 posted 11/27/16 11:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
the car does idle now! Thanks for all the help and tips. despite the ISC testing good from a resistance stand point I decided to remove it power cycle it to see how the plunger behavior was. This showed me a plunger that was not smooth so I decided to replace it with an Oreilly's unit. I have new questions to be asked on New threads now, Thanks again!



I like buying things that are broken for way too much money because they have "potential"

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