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Re: COP Issues


bradrs
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1189679 posted 09/22/14 11:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSTwithPSI:


When you say wired right, would that differ from the diagram I drew above? I basically just adapted the Denso coil in place of how an intrepid coil would be wired into the system. Thanks for the help.




Well the big thing with the AEM coils is that they will suck down a lot of current. And because of the way they wire, you fire 2 in parallel, not series, so that will double the current of just 1. So you are looking at probable 2-4 times the current draw of the standard ignition.

In terms of the drawing you did above, I will make a guess since I am not 100% positive on the Honda coils. But normally, on the coils with built in ignitors like the Evo, LS coils, etc. you have a 12V, a ground, and then a small signal that is the trigger. Your diagram wires them like standard coils with no integrated ignitor, in series. You would have to wire them in parallel. 12V to each of the 4 12V feeds, ground to each ground. And then the signal for the 1,4 channel should be from between the ECU and ignitor, for that channel. Same with the 2,3. Then you can delete the ignitor.

Even then, I can't guarantee it works, because that is a small signal. And sometimes it needs a better ground, or a higher voltage swing. It has been several years since the last time I looked at the DSM ignitor signal. And I have a bad memory when it comes to stuff like that. So I don't want to tell you I know for sure, when I really can't recall.

The PTU inverts the signal into it, and also drives a much higher current. So basically, if you wire that part wrong you will get the timing way off.

Posts: 128 | From: Alta Loma, CA | Member Since: 02/01/14 | IP: (71.93.151.217) | Report this post to a Moderator

bradrs
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1189681 posted 09/22/14 11:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting G:


If I remember right, I actually used cbr 1000rr coils. I think the busa's were to long. This was 2001'ish in my dsm, before I was even a member here. Though I think I did post the part numbers for the coils a while back. Some of the really old posts from way back don't come up anymore.




Pretty much all of the bike coils are horrible for use on our cars. I do recall testing the CBR stuff, it wasn't a good match. It would work better than a defective stock coil, but it definitely wouldn't be as good as a good stock setup. They aren't designed to store the same amount of energy that our coils do.

Posts: 128 | From: Alta Loma, CA | Member Since: 02/01/14 | IP: (71.93.151.217) | Report this post to a Moderator

slugsgomoo
god hates stupid people
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1189689 posted 09/23/14 12:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Wouldn't that be due to the fact that they generally aren't run waste spark?

If run properly with a CDI it seems like bike coils would be fine, since their cycle time should be decent in that case. I know a gen 1 busa has a 12,500 limiter, and I have access to a set of coils on a shelf so it's been something i've contemplated for down the road myself.



-andrew
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#461 Kensington Grey - 2.0L/T67/etc
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Posts: 3678 | From: Tacoma, WA | Member Since: 10/16/03 | IP: (174.21.242.145) | Report this post to a Moderator

bradrs
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1189696 posted 09/23/14 01:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No, it has to do with the high RPM the bikes are designed for, as well as the small form factor. They have very little energy storage available. So they charge quick, like filling a thimble. Where the standard DSM coils are more like a pint glass. It takes a little longer to charge them. On the bike coils, you charge them, then just wind up wasting energy that doesn't go to the spark plug, or worse overheats the PTU.

Running with a CDI is a very big functional change to the way coils work. They no longer have a dwell where they store energy. That is why you can run the crappy bike coils with a CDI, and it will still work. They aren't necessarily preferred for that, but they will work.

The stock bike ignitions run at a very low energy( something like 20-40mJ). They do it with a small gap, and lots of timing advance. They aren't really designed to handle the heat of running more power through them. I have heard from many bikes who have had them die, most commonly in racing. Personally, my CBR1000RR has over 40K miles, stock coils. And I have a few other bikes with similar mileage/performance. But I wouldn't try to put them onto a car or use them on a non stock application.

Posts: 128 | From: Alta Loma, CA | Member Since: 02/01/14 | IP: (71.93.151.217) | Report this post to a Moderator

payne
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1208159 posted 05/11/15 05:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
i'm working on my nephew's evo6 with the 4g63 motor
it looks to have the honda pencil coil conversion
is there any order to the wiring?
or is it just a case of the correct singal wiring colour to number 1+4 and 2+3
the car came to me non-running and partly dismantled
the cam timing had jumped and bent the inlet valves
the heads been sorted but i can't get it to run, its back firing through the inlet
it had all the wiring on the coil packs disconnected before i saw it hence why i'm asking about the order of the signal wiring
the cam timing has been checked and checked again to the mitsubishi manual
and the old school way of on the rock at tdc

the other question is can the cam sensor hall ring be refitted 180 deg out?

Posts: 1 | From: warwickshire uk | Member Since: 05/11/15 | IP: (92.28.63.56) | Report this post to a Moderator


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