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On the value of heat shielding.


EfiniX
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184531 posted 08/14/14 09:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In this post: Anecdotal support for efficacious mitigation of issues related to heat-soak.

Symptoms include:

Loss of performance when warm
Loss of controlled idle when warm
General poopiness when warm

I had this:



Beautiful to be sure, but there's clearly going to be a heat-soak potential with the intercooler piping running right over the top of that sexy FP racing manifold. Now ever since I had my ETS FMIC kit installed, I was plainly aware of a loss of overall power when negotiating stop-and-go traffic. So long as I was moving, things were better, but once I would sit at a few lights, there was a noticeable loss of power. Not much, but come on; we all notice even a little bit, right? It's what keeps us coming back.

Anyway, I got the new motor and such (see my build thread), and in the process, put in this beautiful FP manifold. The performance increases with the new motor were quite nice, but the heat-soak power loss was more noticeable.

So I wrapped it up.



After wrapping the exhaust in titanium heat shielding, and wrapping the IC piping in Thermo-whatever tape, the difference was quite impressive.

My car doesn't stall when coasting to a stop anymore. Like ever. I'm not calling heat-soak mitigation a panacea of idle problems, but for me, after going through everything else with EHMotorsports (and even replacing my TPS), this is what did it. Now it wasn't happening every time I would coast to a stop. Maybe 15% of the time. But now, 4 months on... not once.

And performance dips during stop-and-go are much, much better. That's to be expected, sure, but it was tangible.

So yeah, pretty neat.



RIP 543
Ded click
2006 Suzuki SV-650 (for sale)
2011 BMW 335d (~510'lb/tq and 36mpg. hwy. How can you go wrong?)

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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184563 posted 08/15/14 07:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hum, I have similiar issues, no stalling though. I'm going mod my new turbo(bastard 20g) to a downfiring housing, in an attempt to reduce heat soak off the FP manifold. Good to see you had good results in wrapping.



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coyotes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184584 posted 08/15/14 10:10 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What were your IATs before and after, do you remember? My charge pipe gets pretty hot too, I have been thinking about wrapping it. Have not seen any drivability issues I can attribute to it though.



1226/2000

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ghostinthevr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184595 posted 08/15/14 11:12 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Looking at your setup EfiniX you might be good about not melting the coupler but I would keep a close eye on them. I had a aluminum radiator that put my pipe closer to the manifold, I see your on the stock radiator so you might be better off.

If you can manage to get your setup down firing Prove it I would do it it'll be a lot cooler. I would love to go down firing but for me it's not feasible for my set up.



I found the anti-lag.

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CSMdiesel
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184600 posted 08/15/14 11:37 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You also have these options to choose from, or like me, you can run both:

click

click

I would choose only the blanket if you are not wanting to spend that much money. I can attest to how well these work together, though.



1989 Mirage Turbo

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ghostinthevr4
Likes Poetry
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184604 posted 08/15/14 12:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I ran fp blanket on my car it does help, I have no experience with the shield so I can't comment on that one. The beauty of the blanket is fitment with the shield you have to make sure your UICP will clear.



I found the anti-lag.

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Wookalar
ignore this pathetic weasel he's just not worth the time
3/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184612 posted 08/15/14 02:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've never heard of these (or any) engines stalling because of heat soak.

One thing I would change right away because astetically it bugs me is ditch that coupler and weld those two IC pipes together so you have one pipe going from compressor outlet to the IC. Then of course rewrap the pipe. I don't see any reason why there should be two pipes there.

As for heat soak causing a bad idle and stalling, I would look into vacuum leaks and electronics. Have you tested your IAC lately? Have you had your ECU inspected within the last few years?

What kind of coolant are you using? And the last time you refilled the system did you burp it properly?



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 89Patches:</font><hr />

Brett gstwithpsi is the nut rider!


<hr /></blockquote><font class="pos

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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184614 posted 08/15/14 03:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A solid pipe from turbo to IC? You must never need to service anything on your car.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
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coyotes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184615 posted 08/15/14 03:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'd replace all that wrap with the manifold blanket instead. Cleaner and would be easier to service those manifold nuts that keep coming loose.

that has to be one of the cleanest engine bays around though, looks great. and I imagine that elbow isn't welded to the intercooler. just that coupler in the middle looks redundant.



1226/2000

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184616 posted 08/15/14 03:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Mine is one single pipe from turbo to intercooler. Two easy to reach clamps and it's off.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184618 posted 08/15/14 03:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yours is top route? I thought yours was downfiring Mark.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184621 posted 08/15/14 03:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There is a straight coupler behind the driver's side headlight, and the one at the turbo outlet.





-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (08/15/14 03:36 PM)

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coyotes
Hipster VR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184622 posted 08/15/14 03:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Mark, is your charge pipe wrapped or just bare in the photo? You have a 2g manifold, heat shield? What's your IATs?

Worth asking since it's on topic. It would be interesting to compare people who are wrapped and who are not. I imagine your hood vents help also if you leave them open?



1226/2000

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184623 posted 08/15/14 03:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Completely bare. The 2g manifold has a factory heatshield.

Cruising intake temps are ambient. Stuck in traffic they are a bit hotter, but I attribute that to being stuck in traffic, not due to the pipe being naked. The intake is pulling air from behind the headlight and it's already hot when not moving.

The pipe may get hot, but I don't think that means the air moving through it is pulling all the heat from it. It's not internally finned like an intercooler, yanno? There may be some thermal exchange, but from what I've seen in logs, it's negligible.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (08/15/14 03:41 PM)

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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184640 posted 08/15/14 04:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You have a 2g manifold with heat shield though, an unshielded FP manifold gives off way more heat. I've measured up to 800* at the collector after a hard pull, and around 300-400* during basic start up and prolonged idle.

The curse of the FP manifold.... excessive engine bay heat at the cost of a few more ponies and a cool sound.



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy


Edited by prove_it (08/15/14 04:32 PM)

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turbowop
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184644 posted 08/15/14 04:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I still have an FP manifold on the shelf I need to install. But I also have a blanket and shield for it as well.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051

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citymunky
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184673 posted 08/15/14 06:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You still haven't install that yet? I'll buy it back. LOL



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coyotes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184679 posted 08/15/14 07:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
he knows those turbo bolts are gonna snap



1226/2000

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184686 posted 08/15/14 07:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting citymunky:

You still haven't install that yet? I'll buy it back. LOL




If it ain't broke, don't fix it?

Actually, I plan to pull the turbo and do the HTA upgrade, so I'm waiting. But first I'm gonna have the wheels refinished and customized a bit.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (08/15/14 07:42 PM)

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tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184697 posted 08/15/14 08:59 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I got my ass outside and made a heat shield today.
Didn't take a great picture but here's the idea.
It wraps around the bottom.


Also tapped my turbo housing today, but you can see the installed shield.


So now I have ceramic coating inside and outside and shields.every little bit helps. Would really like some hood vents next.



7 1G DSM's now a GGSX build.


Edited by tektic (08/15/14 09:06 PM)

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ade
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184709 posted 08/15/14 11:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
saw ^this^ today, and need one on my galant.





posting and you...

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Vader
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184747 posted 08/16/14 01:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just finished installing my fp manifold mated to a big 16g yesterday, and damn that thing puts out some heat! I did a little research on ceramic coating the manifold, but apparently fp advises against it due to weaking the manifold material, although the two ceramic coaters I talked to disagreed with fp I've had various other manifolds coated in the past with good results, fp is just special I guess! Ill probably go the blanket/shield route as soon as I sort out a few oil leaks

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G Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184764 posted 08/16/14 06:14 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Fp doesn't know what they are talking about, in fact they used to offer ceramic coatings but were doing it wrong so I think they stopped. I've been using ceramic coatings to control heat for about 16+ years and from my personal experience they do work if the material is prepped correctly and a high quality type/company is used. I don't get how other members here remove their engines, redo their bays, rebuild their motors but fail to incorporate heat management in to their builds until after the fact? Heat management should be part of the build goal.



www.japanesenostalgiccar.com
www.nostalgic.co.jp


Edited by G (08/16/14 06:16 PM)

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Wookalar
ignore this pathetic weasel he's just not worth the time
3/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184791 posted 08/16/14 11:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

A solid pipe from turbo to IC? You must never need to service anything on your car.




I'm not really sure what difficulty people were having removing a small section of lower IC piping which led to this new fad of people using two pipes there but the couplers and clamps are quite easy to get to IMO. Especially on Mark's set up where his pipe runs over the top of the manifold, his comp housing coupler is exposed right in front.. My comp housing points down and I still have no problem loosening two T-bolt clamps when I need to remove the pipe.



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting 89Patches:</font><hr />

Brett gstwithpsi is the nut rider!


<hr /></blockquote><font class="pos

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1184820 posted 08/17/14 09:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting G:

Fp doesn't know what they are talking about, in fact they used to offer ceramic coatings but were doing it wrong so I think they stopped. I've been using ceramic coatings to control heat for about 16+ years and from my personal experience they do work if the material is prepped correctly and a high quality type/company is used. I don't get how other members here remove their engines, redo their bays, rebuild their motors but fail to incorporate heat management in to their builds until after the fact? Heat management should be part of the build goal.




Didn't FP have issues with cracking on their first units though? Maybe they're saying if you contain all of that extra heat after putting on a thermal coating, the manifold composition isn't good enough and will crack? I agree, not much of an excuse though.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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