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Smoke from dash, then car dies, now won't start, help!


JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014708 posted 08/30/11 02:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was driving yesterday, all was well, driving with the A/C on, and smoke comes from the a/c vents, then the car dies, now it won't start.
Had it towed home, now trying to figure out whats going on.

All fuses are good, I thought maybe fuel pump is bad, checked for voltage at the pump wiring and the black wire with the white stripe has no voltage with the key in the on position. I hardwired it to the battery to turn the pump on, and it turns on, but the car still won't start.

Could this be the MPI relay? If so, where is it?

Any other ideas?



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jmorri15
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014712 posted 08/30/11 02:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
pull the ecu and make sure the smoke wasnt from there. you have any idea from which side the smoke came from?



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SouthCaliVR4
Gas Analyzer
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014715 posted 08/30/11 02:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
did you have the a/c set to recirculate? the ecu & mpi relay are right by the vent intake when set on recirculate. Ecu is just above the passenger side kick panel the mpi relay is just under the right side of the glove box.

drop em both & check for any odd smell, open the ecu case & check the caps.



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014723 posted 08/30/11 03:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I did have the A/C set to recirculate, it's all starting to make sense now. I just pulled the MPI, I think thats what the problem is. I'm going to try and check out the MPI before taking out the ECU because supposedly the caps have already been replaced. Thanks for the help guys. I just put in a new alternator and I think the voltage being up above 14v like it's supposed to was too much for the old electronics.



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014727 posted 08/30/11 03:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I popped the top off the MPI and it looked fine, so I just went and pulled the ECU, and it's fucking fried, I could smell it as soon as I pulled it out, and I took the case off and I can see a few small spots where it looks burned, right next to the caps. Great. Anyone got an ECU?


Edited by JamesFoster (08/30/11 03:52 PM)

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SouthCaliVR4
Gas Analyzer
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014793 posted 08/30/11 08:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry to hear that but at least you know what to fix. post up a wanted to buy & someone will set you up. check the IAC motor before you put in a new ecu. as well check all the grounds. A bad IAC can fry the ecu, though I don't know if it would smoke it.

You can also use a 91 up 1g turbo ecu, non e-prom, or a 90 but for the 90 you'll have to swap a couple pins in the connector.



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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1014940 posted 08/31/11 10:58 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Post up pics of the ECU board so we can determine what actually fried. It may be fixable.



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chrisfullwood
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015074 posted 08/31/11 09:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Weird i know, but check the white wire from the O2 sensor. i had it burn up almost completely, and the car wouldn't start. If that isnt it, your going to have to check a lot of wire. If you can be more specific about what works and what doesn't, i would be happy to pull up the schematics and start eliminating stuff (unemployed right now, so i have some free time, and i am an aircraft electrician... cars are much simpler)

oh, something to keep in mind, voltage rarely causes wires to burn out, its amperage...


Edited by chrisfullwood (08/31/11 10:29 PM)

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chrisfullwood
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015091 posted 08/31/11 10:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I traced out all the wires connected to the starter relay back, and it touches the MPI relay, CAS sensor, o2 sensor, and there is a direct ground along the way. If one of those components has failed, it will interrupt the path of current to the starter relay. I can take the wiring down further and mark places to check for voltage if you would like.

Below is the image tracing the path from the Starter relay (assuming the relay is good, if you check for voltage there, and don't find it, you will need to start working back to find the point of failure.




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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015579 posted 09/02/11 09:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting SouthCaliVR4:

Sorry to hear that but at least you know what to fix. post up a wanted to buy & someone will set you up. check the IAC motor before you put in a new ecu. as well check all the grounds. A bad IAC can fry the ecu, though I don't know if it would smoke it.

You can also use a 91 up 1g turbo ecu, non e-prom, or a 90 but for the 90 you'll have to swap a couple pins in the connector.




How would I know if the IAC is bad?



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015580 posted 09/02/11 09:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting FavNumber:

Same thing happened to my car and i had a short somewhere (that I still cant find) my ecu was good. Do you need a Socketed/Eprom ECU or non eprom?




I need an eprom



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015581 posted 09/02/11 09:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting chrisfullwood:

Weird i know, but check the white wire from the O2 sensor. i had it burn up almost completely, and the car wouldn't start. If that isnt it, your going to have to check a lot of wire. If you can be more specific about what works and what doesn't, i would be happy to pull up the schematics and start eliminating stuff (unemployed right now, so i have some free time, and i am an aircraft electrician... cars are much simpler)

oh, something to keep in mind, voltage rarely causes wires to burn out, its amperage...




I checked the o2 sensor, looks fine. The car cranked with the bad ecu just wouldnt actually start.



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015583 posted 09/02/11 10:03 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks for tracing down the wiring for me. I do feel that there is a short somewhere, but I don't know where or what. There's a small gauge wire coming off the alternator harness where the plug plugs into the alternator, that's not connected to anything and is supposed to be connected somewhere I just don't know where. Other than that, the passenger side headlamp ground was showing +12v and the headlight was obviously not working. So I spliced in a wire and grounded it to get my headlamp to work properly, but obviously that means there's a bad ground somewhere or a crossed wire.



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JamesFoster
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015588 posted 09/02/11 10:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I put in a NON eprom ecu from a 92 awd today, and the car started right up. My ecu was from my 91 vr4 and was an eprom. The car seems to run alright except my tach readout on my safc2 is half of what the actual engine revs are for some reason. I want to get a vr4 ecu because I don't know what is different on the non eprom 92 ecu from my 91 eprom.

Here's pics of the fried ecu. Repairable? I don't think so, but I don't know.











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chrisfullwood
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015684 posted 09/03/11 10:55 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
you need to get some denatured alcohol, and a small paint brush, cut the bristles in half, and use it to clean away as much of that burnt stuff as you can. it might be repairable, if you can de-solder the old components, and the board itself isn't damaged to bad. It might be possible to use wire in place of the printed circuit, if its to badly damaged. But clean it up, and put new pictures up, it might be salvageable.



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chrisfullwood
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1015686 posted 09/03/11 11:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not 100% sure on the differences, I believe they are pretty much the same, i could put up the wiring diagrams if you want.



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stevep
Fixes ECUs


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1022137 posted 10/01/11 11:19 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Those are original caps and they have leaked. The front 47uf one leaked and shorted out.
If you were having voltage problems from the alternator that might have been the final straw.

Looks like the CPU chip might be blown too. The smudge mark on the top of it looks interesting.

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