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5 lug conversion


drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26740 posted 11/28/03 12:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is for a conversion assuming you're keeping ABS.
You will need the following parts:
ABS front hubs from a 92-94 TEL


ABS rear spindles from a 92-94 TEL AWD

92-94 ABS AWD "big brake" TEL brakes rotors (or the equivilent)

4 extra lugnuts
4 new wheels

Fronts:

Remove lugnuts, remove wheel, Remove axle, remove ball joint, remove tie rod, disconnect caliper from bracket (no need to remove), remove pads, remove caliper bracket, remove ABS Sensor off of spindle (no need to remove completely), remove spindle,

Install equivalent tel stuff. Put everything back together.

Rears:

Remove lugnuts, remove wheel, remove ebrake cable from caliper, disconnect caliper from rear assy, remove pads, remove rotor, remove rear axle, remove rear axle cup, remove rear spindle.

Install equivalent TEL stuff. Put everything back together. Adjust ABS sensors according to spec.

It's simple, but typically not easy due to rust and stuck parts. You may need a puller and a ball joint remover.


Edited by Hertz (05/25/05 08:43 AM)

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Bigfoot
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26741 posted 11/28/03 04:08 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A few things that I can add.

I got a 1/4"x1" piece of bar stock about 3 feet long and drilled a 1/2" hole in one end. I put this on one of the lug bolts, and against the ground, to keep the hub from spinning when I remove or tighten the axle nut.

To remove the rear hubs, pull the 27mm axle nut off, and remove the cup using a three arm gear puller. Put the 27mm nut back on so you dont damage the threads and drive the hub out.

Dont even try to press out the old bearings. My 12 ton press did jack shit, lots of cussing and a big hammer didnt do it either. So I took everything to a machine shop and he did it all, measured all clearances, checked for proper tension, garranteed the work, and didnt charge much.

If you swapped in the whole 4 bolt LSD rear end like I did you need to reuse your old ABS lines. The 4 bolt lines use different connectors than the GVR4.

If the junkyard rear hubs you get are non-ABS dont sweat it. Your old ABS gear comes right off with a gear puller(and a cheater bar), and can be pressed on the other shaft with a 1 1/2" pipe.

Some(not all)non-ABS front hubs have the holes for mounting the ABS ring. So thats an easy swap too.

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26742 posted 11/29/03 11:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
91 model year ABS equipped TEL parts will work as well, unless you need the 4 bolt for the rear, but the cups interchange of course.
I exchanged the complete rear trailing arm assemblies so I did not have to pull rear bearings. Maybe not easier as removing the rear ABS sensors was a bitch without ruining those costly things.

Currently though, my ABS light comes on after 1 mile of driving. I suspect sensor ring mismatch (tooth counting) but I have not confirmed the code yet. I believe Drew has a light as well. Have you diagnosed yet Drew?

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Craig91
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26743 posted 11/29/03 11:49 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by iceman69510:
91 model year ABS equipped TEL parts will work as well, unless you need the 4 bolt for the rear, but the cups interchange of course.
I exchanged the complete rear trailing arm assemblies so I did not have to pull rear bearings. Maybe not easier as removing the rear ABS sensors was a bitch without ruining those costly things.

Currently though, my ABS light comes on after 1 mile of driving. I suspect sensor ring mismatch (tooth counting) but I have not confirmed the code yet. I believe Drew has a light as well. Have you diagnosed yet Drew?

My ABS light does the same thing after I had the 5lug converstion done. Is there anyway to diagnose it or does have something to do w/ one of the ABS sensors being out of whack?? It bothers me to know that the light is on.

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Bigfoot
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26744 posted 11/30/03 05:16 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
ABS light on here too. I have the GVR4 ABS rings, so I'll put them in when I replace the rear bearings.

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drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26745 posted 11/30/03 09:42 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Well here's the interesting thing. When I swapped the Galant hubs onto the donor Eclipse, I didn't have any problems. That's why I suspect that It's the sensors not being gapped properly.

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AMG to EVO
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26746 posted 11/30/03 02:20 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My abs light also comes on. But before my light comes on my brakes fail, then the light comes on. I had to disconect the abs computer.
Jose.....

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26747 posted 11/30/03 06:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by drew:
Well here's the interesting thing. When I swapped the Galant hubs onto the donor Eclipse, I didn't have any problems. That's why I suspect that It's the sensors not being gapped properly.

But did you ever drive it far enough to know the light WOULD not come on? Just curious, as you and I have discussed the counting issue before. I will be able in about a week to get a code off mine to see what is setting, if it is a specific sensor or something else.

Bigfoot, the sensor rings mount differently to the front hubs on the two cars. Let us know how you get around that. There may also be only 4 cutouts in the sensor ring for the hub bolts. You may have to modify it to match.

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drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26748 posted 11/30/03 08:29 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
yeah i drove the eclipse for about a year/10,000 miles. No ABS light :-\

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Bigfoot
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26749 posted 11/30/03 08:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by iceman69510:


Bigfoot, the sensor rings mount differently to the front hubs on the two cars. Let us know how you get around that.

I didnt, I used 5 bolt rings. I grabbed a non-ABS hub by mistake so I had to go get a ring and bolt it on.

Went out and counted the front rings on the Talon(wheels are already off)47. Dont know about the 5 bolt rear rings.

The 4 bolt front rings, 86. The rear 4 bolt rings, 43. 1/2 of 86. That explains the ABS light.

The 4 bolt hub is threaded, but on the 5 bolt the ring is threaded. I could use nuts and bolts to use the 4 bolt rings. Like you said, the 4 bolt has cutouts for only 4 lugs. Its got plenty of metal, I could drill some more holes. Although I wouldn't want lose an alignment pin because a hole needs to be there.

It might be easier to use a different ABS computor and keep the 5 bolt front and rear rings that are already in.

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iceman69510 Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26750 posted 12/01/03 09:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks Drew. I knew your car had been down a while since the conversion, but if you did get miles on it that is interesting.

Bigfoot, certainly don't put in the GVR4 rear rings with the TEL fronts. I know you will get a counting problem from that. TEL uses 47F/47R, while the GVR4 uses 86F/43R, so it expects that 2:1 ratio. I don't have a clue if the TEL system has a compatible ABS ECU or not. I understood from your post you had used the TEL rings, that's why I used future tense to ask you to let us know if it worked in case you tried it as you suggested you might.

The different designs on the mounting of the front ABS rings is why I did not just have the front hubs redrilled for 5 lugs, because I would still have had to modify them to fit. Maybe simpler in hindsight though...

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makedollarz
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26751 posted 12/01/03 02:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just 1 question....What exactly is the benifit of haveing 5 lug over 4?

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drew
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26752 posted 12/01/03 02:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
1) looks better (IMHO)
2) more availability of rims (style, size, etc)

The reason I did it was because I had a donor 93 GSX, where I transferred the eclipse 4 bolt rear end, 5 lug hubs, 16" stock wheels, and ps fluid reservoir out to the Galant, and put all the respective Galant bits onto the Eclipse. [Big Grin]

and according to RockinWRX, 5 lugs can hold the power better on high hp applications [Roll Eyes]

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26753 posted 12/01/03 10:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by drew:
and according to RockinWRX, 5 lugs can hold the power better on high hp applications [Roll Eyes]

Way to dust that one off!

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Jayru
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26754 posted 12/16/03 12:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by iceman69510:
quote:
Originally posted by drew:
Well here's the interesting thing. When I swapped the Galant hubs onto the donor Eclipse, I didn't have any problems. That's why I suspect that It's the sensors not being gapped properly.

But did you ever drive it far enough to know the light WOULD not come on? Just curious, as you and I have discussed the counting issue before. I will be able in about a week to get a code off mine to see what is setting, if it is a specific sensor or something else.

Bigfoot, the sensor rings mount differently to the front hubs on the two cars. Let us know how you get around that. There may also be only 4 cutouts in the sensor ring for the hub bolts. You may have to modify it to match.

I want to revive this thread as i just purchaced Jose's car and want to get the ABS working.

I need it in all the snow up here. Did you find anything out about the code eor if the TEL computers work?

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26755 posted 12/16/03 12:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hehe good luck with our ABS in the snow. I think is sucks. I definitely stop faster pumping myself than the abs does, even with the snow tires.

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Jayru
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26756 posted 12/16/03 12:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Pivvay:
Hehe good luck with our ABS in the snow. I think is sucks. I definitely stop faster pumping myself than the abs does, even with the snow tires.

I disagree. #120 Has ABS and it works perfectly in the snow. That's why i want it working in #1571.

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26757 posted 12/16/03 12:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I vote w/ Pivvay - worst ABS ever [you know the proper way to say it [Big Grin] ]. The only time it is useful is on ice, otherwise it is a safety hazard IMO. My Talon AWD w/ worse tires and no ABS stops so much better under the same conditions. Too bad central OH has a lot of icy roads or I'd drop the ABS entirely.

Back on topic, I'm going the other way with the 5-lug and simply redrilling the GVR4 ABS ring for the 5-lug hub up front and reusing the stock ABS ring in the back. That way I can get cheap TEL donor parts from the local U-Wrench-It.

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Hertz Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26758 posted 12/16/03 04:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Pivvay:
faster pumping myself

That's all I have to say.

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Pivvay
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26759 posted 12/16/03 04:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
haha Hertz [Razz]

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Jayru
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26760 posted 12/16/03 04:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Could we stay on topic please and post some usefull info if anyone knows anything about the topics discussed in this thread.

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Jayru
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26761 posted 12/16/03 06:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
No one has ever fixed this problem? They just drive around with no ABS?

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Bigfoot
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26762 posted 12/16/03 08:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Does the ABS have it's own computer which could be swapped with a TEL one? [Confused]

1 more thing, the 91's ABS didnt work well with a LSD like I installed. So either I need to swap in a later ABS computer or get rid of it completely. And in wet Portland I want abs.

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Jayru
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26763 posted 12/16/03 11:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Bigfoot:
Does the ABS have it's own computer which could be swapped with a TEL one? Or does the ECU control it, and could a TEL ecu be swapped into the GVR4? [Confused]

Yes on a GVR4 it has it's own computer in the trunk. As far as the TEL i don't know. Also i did some looking around and it seems their are different ABS systems for FWD and AWD cars as well as different years. This is what i am trying to get to the bottom of, but i have no experience with TEL's.

Anyone have any info?

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PacManVR4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 26764 posted 04/03/04 07:37 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Any new info?

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