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2.3 Stroker Motor info...


liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109128 posted 01/20/04 07:42 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've got a 2.4 6 bolt crank from a 86 galant (this is supposedly the forged crankshaft- 4g64, that fits into the 4g63). To my understanding if I get Wiseco pistons (pn K571M855; 85.5mm pistons which is what I have right now- .020 over), supposedly I can use the stock 4g63 rods and wham, I'm done. Does anyone know where I can confirm this? Any "gotchas" I need to be aware of?

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Russya
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109129 posted 01/20/04 08:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm not sure if that's the right crank or not, but if it is and you have the right pistons, yes you can use the stock 1g rods as long as the wristpin location has been moved up in the piston to compensate for the longer stroke.

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anomalyva
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109130 posted 01/20/04 08:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
There is some minor grinding that needs to be done inside the block to clear the new rod angles, and your wrist pin needs to be moved. Otherwise you're good to go =)

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109131 posted 01/20/04 09:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by anomalyva:
There is some minor grinding that needs to be done inside the block to clear the new rod angles, and your wrist pin needs to be moved. Otherwise you're good to go =)

I agree.

liquidgvr4: For informational purposes, what did you pay for the pistons and the 4g64 crankshaft? Did you get the crank from a 2.4 block in a junkyard?

If you have the funding you should upgrade to at least Eagle rods while you have it apart. $319 is a fairly good deal IMO.

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109132 posted 01/20/04 12:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
liquidgvr4,

The K571 pistons are the correct ones for this application. I just ordered a set myself. Just have your machine shop pay close attention to the Wiseco piston clearance specs - they need a lot more than stock cast pistons otherwise they will sieze in the bores due to expansion.

Outside of normal block rebuild issues and the aforementioned clearancing of the block you are good to go. It is that simple which is why I went this way instead of the full 4g64 route.

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109133 posted 01/21/04 10:34 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'd rather go the the 6-bolt 2.4 route myself. It's easier unless you just have a 2.4 crank. But if you find a 2.4 shortblock in a junkyard, you might as well go with the 2.4 build-up instead of just doing the 2.3 stroker.

Pictures of a 2.4L(4gcs) from a 1989 Sonata that I put together for a local guy.
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 -

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109134 posted 01/21/04 10:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Building a 2.4 is simpler than a 2.3? Could you please explain your reasoning? If I can build a true 2.4 simpler than the 2.3 I'll do it, please let me know how.

On the 2.3 beyond the crank and pistons there is no hybridization, everything else is stock 4g63.

My understanding is that on the 2.4 you have to plug passages, drill & tap oil squirters, use the 4g64k timing belt, manufacture a front engine mount and still swap pistons. What am I misunderstanding that makes the 2.4 simpler?

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109135 posted 01/21/04 11:34 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yeah you would have to buy a timing belt(look below), but are you going to use your old belt anyway?

89-91 Sonotas and 85-87 Galants have 6-bolt 2.4's. The plugging of holes in the deck is for 7-bolt 2.4s. Look at the above pictures and compare to a 2.0L headgasket if you need convincing.

A 6-bolt 4g64/4gcs uses the same motor mounts.

You're buying aftermarket pistons for either the 2.3L or the 2.4L.

DECK MODIFICATIONS:
1)If you use a 6 BOLT 4g64/4gcs 2.4 block there is no plugging holes in the deck.
2)Two small holes should be drilled in the deck at the front side(near the water pump, look at the pics above). Use your headgasket as a templet. You can drill these yourself before you take the block/crank to your machine shop. There's not much material here to drill through...almost impossible to screw-up.

TIMING BELT:
1)Use a timing belt from 94 Galant 2.4L DOHC($70-80)
2)Cam sproket/gears are also needed($50) unless you have a set of adjustable cam gears. (Set at +3* approximately)

Everything else from your 2.0L transfers over and bolts right on...waterpump, frontcase/oil pump/oil pump pickup tube, rear main seal, oil pan. The knock sensor bolts on as well.


Edited by Ska-TAY (03/19/07 11:35 AM)

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liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109136 posted 01/21/04 06:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
There is some minor grinding that needs to be done inside the block to clear the new rod angles, and your wrist pin needs to be moved. Otherwise you're good to go =)
Please explain the grinding in detail; I was hoping to do a in-car rebuild. The crank is mint condition from an 1986 4g64b galnt; got it for $25 bucks. I was going to send the crank to a machinist to micro polish it, my block is bored .020 over (and I believe the machinist mistakenly bored it "loose", so the forged wisco's should be perfect). I haven't ordered the pistons yet; I'm trying to decide since I need a new rear main, whether to do this now or build another motor. The grinding of the block may or may not be an issue.

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liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109137 posted 01/21/04 06:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
I'd rather go the the 6-bolt 2.4 route myself. It's easier unless you just have a 2.4 crank. But if you find a 2.4 shortblock in a junkyard, you might as well go with the 2.4 build-up instead of just doing the 2.3 stroker.

I don't know about other 6 bolt 4g64's (mighty max/expo), but the one that came from the early galants (they were 2.4's) had main bolts that had 17mm heads but the shaft was the same diamter of a 14mm bolt's shaft. Didn't seem too sturdy.

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BlackHole
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109138 posted 01/22/04 06:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
SKA-Tay,

quote:
The plugging of holes in the deck is for 7-bolt 2.4s. A 6-bolt 4g64/4gcs uses the same motor mounts.
Okay, that explains a lot. I've seen it mentioned both ways, so I have incomplete / confused information.

quote:
Oil squirters are not needed. This is accounted for in the aftermarket piston design .
I don't agree with this at all. The oil squirters are there for piston cooling and have nothing to do with the design of the piston. For drag no squirters is fine since the engine is running for such short periods. But under any sustained load [autox, road race, top speed runs, etc.] the extra safety margin of oil squirters is essential, IMO. Especially on forged pistons where minimizing temp minimizes piston growth.

liquidgvr4,
quote:
Please explain the grinding in detail; I was hoping to do a in-car rebuild.
This does not sound like a good idea to me. With forged pistons wall clearance is critical and you are at very high risk of siezing a piston if your clearance is at all off on the small side. Too much clearance will tend towards piston slap, but that is not catastrophic.

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liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109139 posted 01/22/04 07:02 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
This is a quote from www.dsmtuners.com:

quote:
1. 94-98 Galant 4g64 Block, can be a SOHC or DOHC, or 96-99 Eclipse Spyder NT 4g64 Block. The SOHC will need 5 oil passages plugged, the DOHC will not. However the DOHC block is hard to find, only came in a 94 Galant GS DOHC. These is a pic below of the 5 holes that would need to be plugged on the SOHC block, how do you plug these?

Just depends if you go SOHC or DOHC as far as plugging the holes go.

quote:
I don't agree with this at all. The oil squirters are there for piston cooling and have nothing to do with the design of the piston. For drag no squirters is fine since the engine is running for such short periods. But under any sustained load [autox, road race, top speed runs, etc.] the extra safety margin of oil squirters is essential, IMO. Especially on forged pistons where minimizing temp minimizes piston growth.
I disagree with this. Sufficient cooling can come from proper Air/fuel mixture and I am a witness. I just got rid of a '91 GS mirage (DOHC 4 door 1.6) that I turbo-charged- I installed new rod bearings but it still had the original pistons and rings at 120k. I pounded on that veh. for a year EVERY DAY. Never any probs. What I did notice that oil squirters do (comparing the mirage to the VR4 and other buddies TEL's), is lower the oil pressure considerably. The mirage idle could dip as low as 300rpm but the oil light never came on. The VR4 (and other turbo TEL's) could dip to 700rpm and the oil light begins to flicker. If I had a DOHC 2.4 I would build it with no squirters and just make sure I had enough fuel so the veh. didn't run lean and raise the egt's. Oil squirters may help cool slightly, but I don't like the impact they have on overall oil pressure. And I've spun bearings before in DSM's; I've never had issues with pistons seizing. In all fairness I've only turbo'ed 1 veh that didn't come turbo.

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liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109140 posted 01/22/04 07:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Has anyone actually stroked a 2.0 and had to grind? I'm getting conflicting info about the grinding.

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Jon Galant VR4.org Administrator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109141 posted 01/22/04 07:54 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I believe this is how it goes:
4G64 is a 2.4L 7 bolt engine.
G64B is a 2.4L 6 bolt engine.

If you want to build a 2.4L engine, use the G64B block and crank instead of the 4G64 short block. Many times, people call the 6 bolt 2.4L engine a 4G64 but it is really a G64B engine.

I've never heard of the 4GCS.

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
77/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109142 posted 01/22/04 08:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
http://www.swordfishgsx.8m.com/4G64/shortblock4.jpg

http://www.swordfishgsx.8m.com/photo4.html

I think the 4gcs is a 7 bolt also.

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lambertvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109143 posted 01/22/04 09:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
One concern I had with the 2.4L block was the larger bore and what head gasket to use. I don't believe you can get the Ralliart gasket for the oversized bore of the 2.4L block. Especially if you have to bore it 20-over. This would mean o-ringing the head and block and using a copper gasket. I figure the 2.3L stroker will be fine and I won't have to worry about it with the Ralliart gasket.

Oil Squirters:
Don't they have a check ball that only lets oil pass through above a certain oil pressure? Maybe that's a Honda squirter I'm thinking of. I personally like the idea of oil squirting. If you have low pressure issues, change your oil. It's either due for a change anyway or you could use a thicker weight oil due to wear on the pump. I had a bad experience with 20w50, so I stick with 10w30 though. I have heard of several who love it though.

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dc_style
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109144 posted 01/22/04 09:39 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
wow... stupid for me to post a separtate topic. i'm using the block from an 89 hyundai sonata. i believe it will bolt right up. correct me if i'm wrong..

just wondering. does anyone actually have a finished 2.4? and what were the gains?

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109145 posted 01/22/04 10:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by Jon:
I've never heard of the 4GCS.

Yeah it's really a G4CS...my bad for posting 4gcs in the first place.

RRE Mitsu engine info HERE.

The pictures above are a G4CS and here's another with the ID stamped right on it.
 -

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109146 posted 01/22/04 10:35 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by lambertvr4:
One concern I had with the 2.4L block was the larger bore and what head gasket to use. I don't believe you can get the Ralliart gasket for the oversized bore of the 2.4L block. Especially if you have to bore it 20-over. This would mean o-ringing the head and block and using a copper gasket. I figure the 2.3L stroker will be fine and I won't have to worry about it with the Ralliart gasket.

Cometic makes a MLS head gasket for the 2.4L stock bore and overbore. Many DSM vendors carry Cometic HGs.

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Ska-TAY
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109147 posted 01/22/04 10:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by dc_style:
wow... stupid for me to post a separtate topic. i'm using the block from an 89 hyundai sonata. i believe it will bolt right up. correct me if i'm wrong..

just wondering. does anyone actually have a finished 2.4? and what were the gains?

It will bolt right in. What turbo are you planning on running?

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
77/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109148 posted 01/22/04 10:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
What do you do about the smaller combustion chamber in the 4g63 head? The stock bore on the 4g63 is 85mm, but the stock bore on the g64b is 86.5mm. Does it matter?

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dc_style
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109149 posted 01/23/04 12:01 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
i'm planning on sticking with the 14b for a bit until i find a 16g. all i know is that spool up will be really quick. but yeh, i'd like to knwo the gain. i recently bought the evo 6 intercooler from someone.. any good?

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theymightbegalants
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109150 posted 01/23/04 02:41 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
quote:
Originally posted by GVR-4:
What do you do about the smaller combustion chamber in the 4g63 head? The stock bore on the 4g63 is 85mm, but the stock bore on the g64b is 86.5mm. Does it matter?

Eh, just think of it as extra quench area. [Wink]

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liquidgvr4
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109151 posted 01/23/04 06:31 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
News on the block grinding; supposedly when using the 6 bolt 2.4 crank with stock 2.0 rods and custom pistons, you shouldn't have to grind. But in the case of the posted site/picture above, he used longer rods, and that increases the outward range of travel of the side of the rod (one of those reasons why I should've paid attention in geometry class).
Oil squirters- the dips in oil pressure on my VR4 is with a new oil pump, and it's been even after an oil chane where I topped off hte oil. Usually on turbo dsm's (in my circle of buddies here) if the rpm's dip to 600 to 700, the oil light flickers (not solid). The non-turbos seem to have more pressure, even after turbo-charging a non-turbo.

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GVR-4
Creative Name Huh?
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 109152 posted 01/23/04 07:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I've heard the piston skirts on a 2.4 will dip into the oil at the bottom of the stroke. Can anyone confirm this?

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