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clutch engagement problems

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Looking for some help with clutch engagement problems. After changing clutch I couldn't get into gear when engine is running. I've replaced clutch master cylinder and slave, bled etc. No luck. No clutch engagement at all. I replaced slave push rod with a longer one as a temp fix cause I needed to move the car. I can now get into gear but still not drivable as still not enough engagement. It seems I'll need to pull the box again and shim the pivot ball. My question is, how many washers can I squeeze in there. I extended pushrod about 10mm so I'm guessing I'll need about 3 washers. Has anyoned done this? What's the maximum spacing on pivot ball. Trying to get some info before I pull box. Don't want to do this twice, I hate removing gearbox. If anyone has shimmed before let me know what you used.

Cheers
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Should mention this is an Aus Spec vr4 HH. Xtreme clutch heavy duty ceramic, sprung.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
1 washer goes a long way, although it probably won't solve your problem. What flywheel are you using and what was the measured step height before you put it in? Is there any slack in the pedal assembly? Are the master and slave bled properly?
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Standard OEM flywheel machined. Not sure of step height. Took clutch & flywheel to shop when they machined it. I'll have to measure height when I remove box. Adjusted master cylinder rod out as far as I could, can still move slave. I have to push pedal very hard to the floor to get it in gear. Barely lift my foot and car starts moving. Still won't go in reverse. I've bled the crap out of this thing, only fluid coming from SC no air. I'll have to measure but I'd say slave rod is traveling close to 15mm. Pedal feels good after replacing mc and SC. Assembly is fine. Fork is almost hitting the walls of the gearbox window thingy when clutch pedal is pushed. This is why I figured pivot ball shimming.
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Also, when bleeding I hold pedal to floor, open and close bleed valve, pedal sticks to floor, I pull it up and repeat. Is this normal? Or should the pedal return on it's own? All air seems to be out of system tho.
 

thomcasey

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
907
Location
Indianapolis, IN
It should stick to the floor. Might I also suggest a NEW pivot ball. Works wonders
 

gtluke

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Messages
4,210
Location
dirty jersey
make sure you have the trans alignment dowels in there.
adjust the clutch top limit switch so the clutch can raise up higher. make sure there is no play in the pedal shaft.
the extended slave rod doesn't do sh*t, why would it? 1ml less oil volume in the slave? I don't see that helping.
Adjust the master properly to get all the play out, you'll create addtional play after adjusting the clutch switch higher. DON'T GO TOO FAR, DO NOT PRELOAD. The clutch master will not be able to retract enough to allow new fluid in if the clutch is preloaded.
have someone else press the pedal in and out and look for broken stuff. cracked firewall, cracked fork, loose parts. LOOSE TRANSMISSION. This happens all the time. People using wrong bolts, f'd up threads, whatever. The clutch slave puts a TON of pressure on the trans, make sure it's not moving at all. I've seen MANY people crack their bell housing not knowing their trans was loose.
BUT
you likely have a problem with the clutch. the clutch is the worst part of our cars. It's so damn tiny, it's stepped, it's expensive, the design just blows.
check the clutch step, check the pivot ball, check for a cracked or worn fork.
I'm a real stickler for a properly feeling clutch. I can't tell you how much time I've spent making sure mine's right. It's the one part of these cars that really bothers me.
 

tektic

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,497
Location
ronkonkoma, ny
Quoting Dale:
Standard OEM flywheel machined. Not sure of step height. Took clutch & flywheel to shop when they machined it.


That's the part that stands out to me.
 

Mr_Fielgood

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
109
Location
Morgan Hill, CA
Clutch adjustment. I had the same exact problem when I changed out my clutch. Started her up and drove for a minute and parked. Then I couldn't get into gear when the car is on. Adjusted the clutch and problem solved.
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Thanks for the feedback. I've tried most of your suggestions. I've already tried adjusting mc and clutch switch, mc at its longest point. Longer slave rod was never meant to be a permanent solution, as stated I needed to move the car and it definitely made a difference as I was able to get it in gear and move the car. I will go over everything again before removing gearbox but no damage on firewall, gearbox is tight, dowels are in etc. Looks like I'll be busy this weekend.
Appreciate all advice, any suggestions are welcomed as I'm not looking forward to removing gearbox again but it's looking like I'll have to.
 

gtluke

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2001
Messages
4,210
Location
dirty jersey
I welded a nut to the back of my master so I can adjust it further. the piece you need to weld comes out easy and is small. just thread a bolt through the existing hole, screw a nut onto that bolt and then weld it in place. This way the threads line up. I don't know if I'm using any of those threads anymore but it helped in diagnostics.
 

brisvr4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
955
Location
brisbane australia
Where in Brisbane are you and who did the machining?
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
I'm at Shailer Park. Got it done at a shop in Herbert street, slacks creek. Slacks creek brake and clutch
 

brisvr4

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2004
Messages
955
Location
brisbane australia
They usually know their stuff.
If you are on Facebook join the brisbanevr4 group. There is a few guys near you. I'm out past Willowbank otherwise I'd check it out myself.
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Used them before and never had any problems. Usually use Exedy clutches tho, first time using xtreme clutch. Thought I'd try something different as my last Exedy had this ratly noise when off throttle, like an exhaust rattle. Unfortunately I haven't had time to work on the car yet, nothing to report yet, I'll keep you guys informed tho.
 

Dale

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
13
Location
Brisbane, QLD
Forgot to update this, added a spring washer and flat washer to pivot ball. Swapped out the clutch fork with a spare I had. The spare one had smaller holes for bearing retaining clip for some reason so I figured less play. Installed gearbox, clutch feels good, removed extended push rod. Fork now sits where it should. Can't drive it to test as I have ECU issues, car won't start but I'm sure clutch dramas are solved. Thx all, just need a 5810 ECU now! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
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