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Car still leaks, not if there's anything I can do about it

Alright, so early this week my new tranny was installed along with new front axles. Drove the car around and bleed the clutch line a few times for better shifts. For some reason I have the same problem as before with the oil leak. There wasn't one while the car sat at the shop which means the rear main is still good. The transmission is a Jacks Stage 2 with new bellhousing so that can't be leaking. My only other guess is the t-case might need to be rebuilt but I am going to do a UV leak test to determine the origin. If my theory is true what do I need to know about these t-cases for a rebuild?
 
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Terry Posten

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
9,009
Location
Davenport, Iowa USA
They don't leak, they just mark their territory.
 

524of1000

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
574
Location
San Antonio, Tx
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

rgeier11

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
726
Location
Chicago Suburbs, IL
Why don't you start by telling us where the leaking is coming from. If you can not isolate the leak, clean all surrounding areas and then wait for it to leak again. That should narrow it down.
 

Nabeel

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
260
Location
K.S.A
May be the leak from the engine? there is a seal behind the flywheel.
 

I think if he knew where the leak was coming from he wouldn't be posing the question but I could be wrong?????

Quoting rgeier11:
Why don't you start by telling us where the leaking is coming from.If you can not isolate the leak, clean all surrounding areas and then wait for it to leak again. That should narrow it down.

 

Quoting Terry Posten:
They don't leak, they just mark their territory.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif

UPDATE:

Drove up to Fort Collins two days ago for a longer road test, and I know some friends over there too. Total trip was somewhere around 250 miles-ish on the new tranny. There were intermittent semi-hard pulls going full boost but never redlining the motor (nothing too harsh). I still have to shift really slow and reverse has been grinding intermittently since the install. Oil still drips once in a while and its hard to tell if its motor oil or tranny fluid or fluid from the t-case. I checked the motor oil yesterday when I got back to Denver and the oil level was 1/8th in. below minimum. I looked around and the oil catch tank hose was disconnected. This might be why the oil level was low and inspecting further, the sub-frame and intake piping were sprayed with oil. Topped off the engine oil hoping that the hose was all that caused a low oil level.

I also need to mention that when the car is not on, the transmission doesn't shift smooth at all, with or without operating the clutch. Every shift feels like the synchros are not lined up well, feels like the gears are sticky. Driving the car, when I let off on the gas pedal, sometimes the car jerks like it is misfiring. The plugs are new and I'm also noticing some oil on the valve cover where the plug boots are. Checked each spark plug and they are all dry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Could a misalignment on the transmission cause any of what I have been experiencing? The car felt way faster the day I Peter took me for a test drive and when I test drove the car. Or could a bad seal/gasket on the t-case cause some of this?
 
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Add a new oil cap rubber gasket(buy the mitsubishi one)to the old one that should stop the oil leak from the top of the valve cover, as for your transmission woes sounds like something is not on correctly but I'm not an expert on this so I will let someone else chime in on that one....
 

I got around to replacing the valve cover gasket today. Figured it's best to start with the easier thing to replace. I did notice bits of the old gasket crumble and massive wet areas on the valve cover side of the old gasket. Started the car when I finished to warm up the motor. Test drove the car about a mile of moderate driving. Upon inspection the oil cap still leaked! After cleaning up the oil I decided against my better judgment and used a secondary gasket on the newer oil cap. On the second test drive zero leaks on the top side. Not sure if there is any difference with the valve covers used on all the 1G/2G 4g63s or the oil caps used. Now I am waiting to see if there will be an oil spot under my car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
 

dlesser

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
61
Location
Westminster, CO
Here are some places to check that I have chronic issues with...

Oil return line from the Turbo...i built my own after messing with the stock ones for long enough
Transfer Case......recall....enough said
Output shaft seal on the tranny
Axel seals on the tranny
Valve covers like to leak a lot
Never had my front or rear main seals leak but I replace them every time I get in there
Drain plug....seriously this thing can't be stopped!

Your in Colorado so let me know if you want to rack it on a lift to look. We can even fire it up and rev up the motor while on the lift to look for leaks. You would need to drive it to boulder... The finally got all my leaks fixed but I rebuilt the ENTIRE long block and did each part my self to make sure there were no leaks. So far so god! Let me know if I can help.
 

So far...car is still leaking. At least I know the top end is good and thanks for the good input. From what I saw with the uv dye the oil pan gasket might be the next in line.
 

Quoting dlesser:
Here are some places to check that I have chronic issues with...

Oil return line from the Turbo...i built my own after messing with the stock ones for long enough
Transfer Case......recall....enough said
Output shaft seal on the tranny
Axel seals on the tranny
Valve covers like to leak a lot
Never had my front or rear main seals leak but I replace them every time I get in there
Drain plug....seriously this thing can't be stopped!





What was the recall for on the t-case? How would I know if the recall has been done?
I am pretty sure the guys at Jacks Transmission replaced all the seals on the tranny so that shouldn't be the problem.
As I mentioned the valve cover gasket was replaced and I fixed the oil cap to not leak.
I do have my suspicions that the main seals need to be replaced and possibly the oil pan gasket.
As I mentioned UV dye was poured in the crankcase and the oil marks on the driveway light up at night with a UV pen light.
 

Something that came across my mind today that scares me is if the head warped.With these cars what am I looking at for repairs?
 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting R34P3R62:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting Terry Posten:</font><hr />
They don't leak, they just mark their territory.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif" alt="" />

UPDATE:

I also need to mention that when the car is not on, the transmission doesn't shift smooth at all, with or without operating the clutch. Every shift feels like the synchros are not lined up well, feels like the gears are sticky.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

The quote above sounds like possibly a shifter alignment issue. Are you located in Colorado? If so, I don't understand why you don't stop by and show it to us so we can see what the problem is. We will know very quickly what is causing those issues. We have seen, in many cases, where the installer will hammer the cable clip at the top of the trans and miss and hit the cable instead. This will cause the shifter to feel like crap. Could also be a bad cable crimp, shifter out of adjustment, loose bracket bushings/bolts...

Your grinding reverse gear is a classic symptom of a dragging clutch problem. If you do not fix this, you will ruin the trans. Here is some more info which should have been included with the trans:

Transmission Care and Tips
Thank-you for choosing Jacks Transmissions for your transmission rebuild! We take great care to assure proper operation of the unit before it leaves our facility. We pride ourselves in our ability to modify the synchro slider timing to allow for the fastest and most accurate synchronization possible. In other words, your transmission should shift better than any other unit you have felt before! Though there is a huge amount of time spent on your transmission to assure superior synchro operation, this does not mean they can never be damaged or feel notchy if something else is wrong. The #1 reason for transmission synchro failure is due to clutch issues. Please read below for tips on how to recognize a clutch problem before it ruins your Trans. Becoming aware of clutch problems could save you thousands of dollars in transmission repairs in the future.
1) The transmission should never feel notchy or block you from a gear while shifting (some people call it ‘lockout’). If this happens, NEVER force the Trans into gear or the synchro will be ruined! This applies at any engine RPM. If it shifts smooth at low RPM, but it blocks you at high RPM, there is a clutch problem and it must be fixed immediately! When a Trans blocks you from a gear, you are experiencing what we call ‘clutch drag’. This means the clutch is not letting go of the disk fully and dragging on the assembly. An adjustment might need to be made, or the clutch could be excessively warped at the pressure plate. If the Trans won’t go into gear at all, the clutch is severely warped or broken, STOP and do not drive the car or transmission damage will occur!
2) When launching, do not ride the clutch. Riding the clutch is when someone stays in the clutch ‘friction zone’ too long and overheats the unit. When a clutch is in the friction zone, it is using friction to operate and move the car forward. If you stay in the friction zone too long, the unit will build up enough heat to damage the assembly. This can quickly warp the pressure plate and cause clutch drag, which will then cause the Trans to feel notchy when shifting.
When you launch, just give the clutch smooth and quick engagement without sitting in the friction zone. You want to stay out of the friction zone to prevent overheating, but you do not want to dump and shock the clutch either as that will break other parts. Staying in between the two can be tricky, but if you find yourself riding the clutch, let off the gas immediately and stop. Let the assembly cool for at least 15 minutes, and then try again. Do not launch over and over again, as even smooth and proper launching repeatedly will overheat the unit if not enough time is taken to allow cooling.
3) Do not shock load the clutch. Shock loading is when the driver lets the clutch go too harshly, and quickly, and allows the clutch to engage so violently that it puts a shock through the system. Shock loading while launching, or shifting, can pop the rivets of a sprung hub clutch disk and cause the clutch to drag, which will kill the transmission. Shock loading can also break Tran’s gears, CV shafts, and other drive-train components. Shock loading doesn’t make you any faster and is very harmful to many parts.
4) Become familiar with the feel of your clutch and transmission. If at any time the clutch feels different, or the Trans doesn’t shift smoothly, something is wrong. STOP and do not continue driving the car. Check for clutch drag, check the hydraulic system, or worst case, pull the clutch back out and check it too. The feel of a clutch and Trans should never change, if it does, something is wrong. Becoming familiar and aware of the feel of your clutch and transmission will help prevent costly repairs in the future. Clutches are a device that uses friction to operate, so it will warp, and it will wear out in time. It’s when the driver can notice a change, and not ignore it, that saves your transmission! Having to rebuild your transmission every time the clutch wears out, or breaks, is something that should never have to be done. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us via phone 719-243-5305 or email [email protected]

+++++++++++++++++++

Please read before driving!
Improper clutch adjustment will destroy your new unit! Damaged synchros due to improper clutch engagement will VOID YOUR WARRANTY!! If we get the unit back damaged due to the clutch, we will know! We will see severe wear on the sides of the synchro blocker ring teeth and friction surfaces, and damaged slider and gear engagement teeth. Please follow the steps below to make sure your clutch is working properly:

1) Have the car running with the e-brake off so it can roll.
2) Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there.
3) Turn off your launch limiter so the engine can hit 7K RPM.
4) Put the car into 1st gear.
5) Rev the engine up until you feel the car start to move forward.

If the car moves forward below 7200RPM, your clutch is dragging. DO NOT DRIVE UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS FIXED! Unit will also be hard to shift, so DON’T DRIVE OR FORCE IT INTO GEAR! If the car moves forward in the test above or is hard to shift, check each of the following:

1) Adjust the master cylinder under the dash. Video of how to do this on our website www.jackstransmissions.com
2) Bleed your hydraulic clutch system and make sure you have a factory master cylinder from the dealer ONLY! Do not use generic auto parts store/eBay masters.
3) Check for improperly torqued block-to-bell-housing bolts, flywheel, or pressure plate.
4) There should be 2 dowel pins to properly center the Trans with the engine.
5) Check for missing block-to-bell-housing bolts. If any are missing the Trans can be pushed away from the engine which will crack the bell housing and make the clutch drag.
6) Make sure the throw out bearing fork is not hitting the bell-housing when the clutch pedal is depressed. Proper pivot ball shimming is on our website.
7) Check for incorrect flywheel step height. Most aftermarket flywheels are stepped too tight.
8) Check for warped flywheel or pressure plate surfaces.
9) You may have a bad clutch master cylinder.
10) You may have a bad clutch pedal ‘z-bar’ (1Gs ONLY).
11) You may have a broken or bent clutch disk due to improper installation.

The unit was tested here at the shop before it was shipped to you. It shifted and ran perfectly here or you would not have received it. DSM, 3S and EVO transmissions require 2.5-3 quarts of oil. For our DSM transmission rebuilds we recommend factory Mitsubishi transmission gear oil. If available, the EVO MR 6-Speed oil is the best oil to use as it has the perfect blend of friction modifiers to keep the tranny shifting smoothly and prevent gear failure. Gear oil choice is very important and varies based on preloads and synchro blocker ring design, therefore it is strongly recommended that you stick with Mitsubishi fluid for our transmissions. If you are unable to locate Mitsubishi MR 6-speed oil from the Mitsubishi dealer, you can use Redline MT90 (higher horsepower or race applications) gear oil. For transfer cases and rear ends, use Redline Heavyweight Shockproof ONLY. It is especially important to use only Redline Heavyweight Shockproof fluid or Mitsubishi DIAQUEEN part# 3775610 T-Case fluid in the EVO transfers cases. DO NOT use Synchromesh, BG Synchroshift I or II, or Royal Purple. These fluids will destroy synchros and gears and void your warranty! We have confidence that our transmissions are the toughest you can buy but the obvious rules of driving still apply for longest life: Do not slam into gear, do not shock the system (drop clutch), do change the oil in recommended intervals and do make sure your components are installed and functioning properly. Smooth and accurate shifting is the key to fastest driving. Please call us at 719-243-5305 or email [email protected] if there is a problem.

++++++++++++++++++

WARNING! A dragging clutch will destroy your new Transmission!! When a clutch drags, it is not letting go of the disk fully which overloads the synchros and burns them up quickly! Synchros work by speeding up or slowing down the input shaft and disk. If the clutch is dragging that little synchro is trying to speed up and slow down the engine speed, which is impossible for it to do. We believe that the synchros in all manual transmissions are brilliantly engineered and should last the life of the vehicle. If your synchros went bad and the Trans needed to be rebuilt, ask yourself why. If the synchros, including the originals, should never go bad then why were yours bad? A dragging clutch is a very serious issue that is not taken seriously by the installers of your Trans and/or clutch!! It is important to be 100% sure your clutch is not dragging or you will ruin the new synchros again in short time! Synchro damage due to a dragging clutch will not be covered under our warranty. If the Trans is ruined due to a dragging clutch it will have to be rebuilt all over again. Save time and money by not burning them up and making sure the clutch is not dragging. Symptoms of a dragging clutch:
1) Synchros start to grind requiring a rebuild. If the original synchros were ruined from a dragging clutch, then your new Trans will also be ruined if the issue is not fixed!
2) Shifting feels notchy and there is resistance while trying to shift. If the synchro is fighting you, it means that the assembly is having a hard time synchronizing the gear. DO NOT FORCE IT INTO GEAR! A dragging clutch will make the synchros work terribly hard so shifting will not be smooth.
3) Can’t shift at high RPM. Most clutches drag at high RPM. If you miss a shift or have a hard time going into gear at high RPM, the clutch is dragging and needs to be fixed.
4) EVO8-9 will not go into 1st or R at idle with twin disk Exedy clutch. This is a known issue with the Exedy twin disks and is in our FAQ at www.jackstransmissions.com with a fix for the problem. Again, if the Trans is forced into gear the synchros will be damaged. This problem MUST be fixed before the vehicle is driven!
5) I have a new clutch, so I don’t need to check for a dragging issue. Wrong! 90% of new aftermarket clutches drag right out of the box. Many need adjustments for more throw under the dash or the pivot ball shimmed. Videos of how to do this are also on the jackstransmissions.com website.
6) I have a 7.25” twin disk and they don’t drag. Wrong! Small twin disk clutches can also drag badly. Warped floaters can make them drag worse than any single disk clutch out there.
We cannot stress enough how important it is to be sure your clutch does not drag. Jacks Transmissions has the longest warranty in the business and we value our customers. We want our customers to have not only a long trouble free service life, but we want it to perform perfectly as well. A dragging clutch can kill your Trans within only a few shifts as the synchros are fragile. It doesn’t matter what they are made of or if they are double or triple synchro, they will be ruined if the clutch drags, period.
Please feel free to email us at [email protected] if you have any questions or concerns over your clutch. We want to help and would be more than happy to be sure everything is right so you get the best performance possible out of your new Trans! Please review the other sheet to check for a dragging clutch as checking for a dragging clutch is simple and easy to do.
 

As of now the car is on jackstands getting ready for an overhaul. When I crawled under the car to disconnect the driveshaft from the t-case I saw the same hair-line fractures similar to the ones on the old tranny. I'm going to need to hunt down another t-case soon. I need a stronger and more reliable t-case so this bullshit can stop!

Edit:
If the clutch IS dragging and ends up throwing my tranny out of warranty I'm shoving my size 13 up the guy's ass who installed the tranny and "assured" me everything in properly installed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 
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Peeled everything off except the head (need to go to the local hardware store for a 12-point socket) and left the belts and accessories on for the video. Please note that in the photo the green fluid is MOTOR OIL with UV DYE so don't talk to me about coolant issues or coolant leaks. This makes me concerned about the condition of the piston/cylinder (rings are cheap to replace).

click

EDIT: I am on a tight budget to rebuild this thing. I already have the complete engine gasket set with the OEM MLS head gasket which is setting me back $225. I want to replace the main bolts with ARP fasteners ($65) and possibly a main girdle ($120) putting the total at $410. Who makes the best piston rings for the value? My given budget at the moment is $1500. I have about $1k to work with here and I'm thinking of upgrading to the ECMLink and ditch the Keydriver chip (Link will cost me $500). I need this thing up and running in the next two weeks or I'm boned for transportation to school.
 
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In most cases, oil consumption and low compression in a DSM is caused by head problems. I would pull the head, rebuild it proper, and pop it back on with the OEM bolts. Don't use OEM replacement valve seals, because they will smoke. We use a high temp valve seal which live a very long time in turbo applications. Don't get cheap on the head rebuild! If you don't rebuild it completely it will always be a POS.

OEM bolts using ARP grease and torqued to 80ft/lbs will hold up to a lot! I wouldn't spend the money on ARPs as they are not that much better over OEM 6-bolt head bolts. If you want good head bolts, get L19s when you have the money for them.

Ring problems in a 6-bolt just don't happen unless you have such a horrid tune that you damaged the piston ring lands, or broke a ring. The OEM pistons and rings are very strong and I have yet to see them just wear out. If your pistons and rings are OK, and you replace the rings with a cheap aftermarket set, you will end up burning more oil and cause more problems. OEM factory pistons and rings which are not broke, even with 200k miles on them, are always like new when we look at them. Just look at the cylinders. If they have no scoring or scratches, I would leave the bottom end alone until you can build an awesome one with more money later on.
 

Well this was one of the side projects I took care of. The power cable from the battery was 6ft too long so I had move a bunch o crap to get the cable at a reasonable length.










Battle injuries. The motor stand wasn't yet secure and the engine rotated on me and I received a bolt form the motor mount to my left bicep.








 
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The main problem was the head gasket but going this far into the motor I am just gonna replace everything from the crank to the pistons. I've never really worked on a DOHC system and never really did timing on them. Any advice on how to properly time the engine would help me the most.
 
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