A Tale of two TiALs (FAIL)

[NateCrisman]

So I'v been running a knockoff fake tial style bov since putting my GVR4 together in summer of 09. I got it stupid cheap and after hearing internet chatter of how it works exactly like a real $225 Tial brand bov, I figured why not.

The GVR4 has always had what sounded like a hissing vacuum leak around the bov area, which I'v had the boost controller solenoid (AEM tru-boost) T'd into. If you pinch off the vac line to the bov...the hiss stops. (why this didn't lead me to think the bov was leaking months ago...I don't know. slipping in my old age?) I can't say for sure when I first noticed the vac leak sound, but I remember it being there when I first put the 14b on the car in like april. Boost control on the car has always been "boost spike with significant falloff" with every turbo (50trim, 16g, 14b). The AEM boost controller has always been nearly maxed out on duty cycle (nearly 80% to get barely 24psi) and never seemed to be consistent, pretty opposite of many other people's experience with this controller.

So I swap the bov onto the talon and make passes a few weeks ago, and while swapping it back onto the GVR4, I notice it's making a clicking sound. flip it over:

WTF: the nut is gone and the main plunger/disk is not connected to the shaft!!!!!



So now I got on the frantic search for the nut, which I assume has to be in the intercooler pipe of the Talon. It's all of 12" long between the air/water ic and the TB. nope. take of TB: it's not in the intake manifold either. The nut is not in the DSM's engine/intake.

Now Im thinking that the nut must have came off while the bov was on the GVR4. I pull and check those pipes....nope. (I haven't checked the intake manifold of the GVR4 as that's major work, but the car runs fine). Neither engine is going to survive ingesting an aluminum or steel nut, so I feel somewhat safe to say the nut is just GONE and must have been lost one of the times I had the intercooler piping off on the GVR4 during the 3 engine swaps or 3 turbo swaps and I never noticed the clicking.

So I buy another of the same knockoff tial while on vacation, thus I don't have to swap them from car to car. Figured I'd go find a matching nut to the new one in order to repair the old one (with red loctite). The new one does not have a nut on bottom...the shaft is threaded right into the disk. It's in an XSpower branded box BTW. Here's the new/old bov side to side:

Closeup of new one:

So now Im wondering
[*]"did Chinabay change the design after finding out that nut tends to fall off and munch intake valves & pistons?"
[*]"for how long as this bov been non-functional?" - maybe for months, maybe the whole time I'v used it?
[*]"maybe this was a major contributing factor to the snapped 14b shaft?" - yeah...I bet!
[*]"how much has this been a factor in performance and tuning?"
[*]"was the bov leaking boost the whole time?" - maybe why my boost controllers are always maxed out and I'v had boost drop-off with every turbo I'v used on both cars.
[/list]

seriously....this stupid BOV might have been leaking and limiting boost on every pass I'v make in the last 2 years!:icon_idea::icon_frown: GVR4 might have gone 11's on 14b if this thing was indeed leaking?

 

[mitsuturbo]

Was there ever really a nut on the old one? Or were there threads in the stopper which have been long since stripped and worn out?

 

[thecman02]

See... I haven't heard about the BOV's being exactly like the real deal, but I've heard of guys using the wastegates. I have heard lots of people actually rebuilding ebay wastegates with tial rebuild kits. That is quite the bummer though if that stupid part ruined every run your cars have had for the past two years.

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting mitsuturbo:
Was there ever really a nut on the old one? Or were there threads in the stopper which have been long since stripped and worn out?



The main disk from the old bov is significantly different from the new style and the old style one is only about 1/32" thick where the threaded shaft goes through, so there was definatly a nut holding the assembly together at one time. There's also a flat machined into the disk where the nut would sit.

 

[G]

Knock off ftw!

 

[mitsuturbo]

Well, the area where a nut would sit doesn't really look like you'd be able to get a nut AND a tool in there to tighten it. I'd also think it'd be marred up from where the nut was loose and maybe scoring against things. If you've taken it apart completely and verified it's supposed to have a nut, then so be it. I'm not saying either way. It just "looks", from the photos, like it'd be threaded into the piece.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking. I guess i'm hoping there's not a nut rattling around somewhere in one of your intake manifolds, more than anything. That would totally suck.

 

[TylerAdamson]

Why not pick up a used TiAL as opposed to spending more money on something that's failed you already? Seems like the logical thing to me. Used TiALs pop up for ~$120.00 every week.

 

[GreenGSX]

looks like the diaphragm is installed backwards.

 

[H05TYL]

Quoting TylerAdamson:
Why not pick up a used TiAL as opposed to spending more money on something that's failed you already? Seems like the logical thing to me. Used TiALs pop up for ~$120.00 every week.



Totally agree. The genuine ones don't cost much new anyway though these days.

To the OP: So you bought a cheap copy of something, and it's not worked how it should due to it being poorly made? There might be a moral in that somewhere... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[464/2K]

Why in gods name would you support a company that stole another companies design?

 

[3rdstrikedsm]

I have known people running 10's for years on these knock off wastegates and bov's this is actually the first failure I have heard of but I am not surprised either.

 

[4thStroke]

I don't think the failure rate is very high on these altogether, but rather the cheap internals provide undesirable results. You can call it failure if you want. I've heard that the springs become inconsistent over time and boost control is tough to manage (in reference to TiAL knockoff wastegates).

 

[NateCrisman]

Im not pissed at all, this is exactly what I expect from a cheap copy $30 bov. If I had paid $200 for a new tial and had a failure like this, I'd be screaming pissed off. But this is the path I choose: Cheap or used parts. I'v pretty much completely built this GVR4 and my 1g AWD on the cheapest used parts I could find. If I can have two new working BOV for less than one used "authentic" ones, then that's the way I'm going.

actually, I think this is half the fun of modifying cars for me: doing it on a budget. Getting the most performance I can out of junk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif I'd certainly rather do it this way vs tossing $$$ into the car buying all top of the line parts and getting, well mediocrity; exactly what everyone expects from cubic dollars. There's no challenge in building a car with your wallet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Not to mention there are no cubic dollars to be spent.

So...Im going to go buy a $0.30 nut, and put the second bov back on. This isn't really much of a spectacular failure, I just posted it because I thought some of you guys might find it interesting to see the design change in the bov, hear the story of the frantic nut hunt, and maybe get some feedback on the possible leakage affecting the cars' performance.

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting 464/2K:
Why in gods name would you support a company that stole another companies design?



That's American Capitalism at it's finest baby! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[curtis]

I just looked but I guess they went to the metal recycler. everytime my buddy swaps out a broke ebay special he saved it. At one time had 6 ebay 16G's in the corner and a bunch of bov's and gates that I grabed up. I only have one bov piston and its different than that and is solid with 4 set screws in it. Maybe its a version one and you have a 2 and 3. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


Or maybe its a wastegate piston. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[NateCrisman]

3 different versions. ahahah nice. Ill upload some pics of the inside of this bov.

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

you bought cheap ebay knock off sh*t.

i hope your engine blows up... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[3rdstrikedsm]

Quoting NateCrisman:
Quoting 464/2K:
Why in gods name would you support a company that stole another companies design?



That's American Capitalism at it's finest baby! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



Lol truth!

 

[Barnes]

I'm seriously confused by the American Capitalism comment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think I've come to the conclusion that china-bay parts is like the car part equivelent to movies from bit-torrent. You can't get away with it for free, but you can get away with it for less.

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting Alpha Male:
you bought cheap ebay knock off sh*t.

i hope your engine blows up... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



I hope your anus catches fire the next time you shop in a walmart, buy a cell phone, or buy/use pretty much any product in the commercialized world (damn near everything is a copy off or improvement in value/cost from another companies product). Don't be all high and mightly about a stupid bov.

Actually, I think the manufacturing quality of this $30 bov is 97% as good as an authentic Tial bov. The materials and machine work are perfectly fine for the intended use. The diaphragm, Vband clamp, hose nipple, banjo bolt, oring and crush washers, I wouldn't be surprised if they came out of the same part supply bin as an actual tial. Basicly, I wouldn't call this part "cheap sh*t" since the build quality is actually pretty nice. Better than the price would suggest and better than some brand name BOV I have used in the past. (like those dogshit TurboXS "held on with set screws" bov).