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Roll cage tied into strut towers through the firewall.


DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 945781 posted 11/02/10 07:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm getting feedback from Galant rallyistas that tying the roll cage into the front strut towers through the firewall is a must for longevity. Yes, this improves structural rigidity, but it's critical when the vehicle is expected to be airborne on a regular basis. In the broad strokes, this requires punching through the firewall in a couple places, but those locations present a lot of potential collateral damage. Not so much where the sill bars (just above the floor pan), but behind the dash bar. On the driver side, the brake booster takes makes things tight on the engine side, while a couple electrical junction blocks get in the way internally.

Has anyone here run a cage through like this? Anyone have pictures of such an implementation they could share? I've got a couple weeks before kcpaz will have room for 195/2000 at the shop, so I'm looking to make the most of the time. Appreciate the feedback.



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 945978 posted 11/03/10 11:22 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I've since decided to forgo intra-firewall shenanigans in favor of fender bars (between the fender and unibody outside the engine bay), but I am still interested in seeing how you guys stiffened up the front end. Anyone? Bueller?



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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grocery_getter
Senior Crab
836/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 945980 posted 11/03/10 11:30 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I thought a saw pictures from Teeter's and Larry's car a long time ago. You can always PM them.



Andre
836/2000
PINA MOTORSPORTS
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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946121 posted 11/03/10 06:22 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Look in the homologation papers i posted. all of the safety devices and ralliart group a cages are shown explicitly in there.

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946149 posted 11/03/10 07:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Brian hooking the strut towers in really helps and I plan on doing it as well but really the best way to do it is cut out the area oversized do the tube and then replace the sheetmetal with 2 pieces of sheetmetal with a half circle in each if that makes sense. you could also replace the whole area with thicker metal that has been bead rolled behind the brake booster and the clutch master to get rid of firewall flex.

Then build your own strut tower brace that connects to the firewall as well as across you could also tie the firewall to the dash bar while your at it. But might cause you to need to remove the dash.

Dimple die plates on the A pillars also look super sexy.

click me



92 GVR4 0475/1000
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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946444 posted 11/04/10 03:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting misterfixit:

Look in the homologation papers i posted. all of the safety devices and ralliart group a cages are shown explicitly in there.




Rich - Thank you as always for taking the time to share your library with us. Unfortunately, despite trying multiple links in your library thread in "How To," I was unable to locate the homologation papers. I found all the manuals, PR brochures, the amazing Galant HSR, body measurements, and countless electrical schematics, but did not come across the JDM trans/engine/homologation papers.

[url=http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Board=UBB11&Number=911157&Forum=f11&Words="homologation%20papers"%20-"Re%3A"&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=911157&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post911157]click[/url]
This thread, correct?

I'm off to Google in the meantime.

EDIT: Found them. They are hosted here (following link), however the post in How To does not seem to link to them.
click

And thank you for your advice as well, Curtis. Dimple-cut gussets are on the agenda. Easily A-pillar, B-pillar, but I also like the rear strut tower brace in those pictures and will be looking to do something with that stuff under the dash for leg protection.


Edited by DR1665 (11/04/10 03:37 PM)

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TeamDucktape
Unregistered


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946454 posted 11/04/10 04:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
here are some pics












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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
1881/2000
50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946460 posted 11/04/10 04:41 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Larry's car used custom Wilwood style brake master cylinders, so his routing may be impossible for you.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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misterfixit
Victory Runner


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946479 posted 11/04/10 05:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Sorry, forgot to mention its in the library!

Anyhoo. Here are the last three steel cages. Mitsubishi motors, Ralliart inc. and safety devices. The earlier aluminium and bolted cages were outlawed so these are the welded ones.

1




2




3




The earlier one (2) should show the tower connection, the later ones are similar.. and it literally is straight through the dash through the firewall to the turret.

Hope this helps,

Rich



92 UK 1800 GALANT DD
88 JDM E39A GALANT VR-4, running. But only just.
93 CB4A --- rewound
91 PDM GTI Resurection project. Aborted
Stuff Index


Edited by misterfixit (11/04/10 05:14 PM)

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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946498 posted 11/04/10 06:17 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thanks for posting the individual screencaps, Rich.

Obviously, none of those designs are legal for rally competition anymore (especially not here in 'Merica). So many dead tubes and flimsy-looking bolt-in bits. (shudder) I did like the shots of the boxed-in rear turrets and the triangulation up to the front turrets. Perhaps I can swing a few extra bucks and talk Kent into door and sill bars (which would allow me to see about getting a log book issued). Those would make excellent points to tie into the front turrets.

Ducktape, that's a beefy tower bar! Dig the strut tops too. I like the triangulation to the center of the firewall, but suspect there might be an intrusion risk after a couple hard landings. You get that thing airborne at all? How is that center bit supported? Do those diagonals pass through to the ends of the factory dash bar?

My buddy with 82/2000 (it's a rally car) took a 3ft deep water crossing at speed and made it through, but as his front end isn't tied into the cage, the front end took a head-on and downward hit. Now the nose is sagging, buckling the fenders, and the sidemembers are separating from the firewall, even tearing the wire harness. I'd be concerned bracing the front turrets without tying them into the cage structure could get hairy in a head-on or front 3/4 shot.

By the weekend, I intend to take a good, long look at the firewall in these locations. Wires can be easily (albeit, painstakingly) extended, but punching pipe through the firewall will take some planning. I like the simplicity of fender bars (which tie the outside of each turret to the door hinge locations), but nothing beats a fully integrated cage.

Thanks for the intelligent discussion, gents.



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946505 posted 11/04/10 06:52 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yea strut tower bar is sweet. I have pictures of Larry's car and others on the harddrive some where, it will take some time but I'll post them up if I find them.



92 GVR4 0475/1000
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Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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curtis Galant VR4.org Moderator
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946517 posted 11/04/10 07:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Larry's car








Ray Castro's






Not sure
















92 GVR4 0475/1000
Greenhouse Effect Green
Exceeds Mechanical Limits
"Put the dawg to work.
Ass, Gas or Milkbones. Nobody rides for free" Jon AKA Toybreaker

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Larry Parker
Rally Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946608 posted 11/05/10 06:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I opted to NOT tie them in due to the added headache... I plated the tops with some waterjet .250 plate and left it at that. I didnt notice any issues, but it can help when you stuff the car in the woods.


Larry




Parker Rally Sport/Hotbits tuning USA
Rally America #622
OPEN class
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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946660 posted 11/05/10 11:46 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Larry Parker:


I opted to NOT tie them in due to the added headache... I plated the tops with some waterjet .250 plate and left it at that. I didnt notice any issues, but it can help when you stuff the car in the woods.



Believe me, I am all about avoiding the headaches at this point. It's been five years and I've come to the decision it's better to run a less-than-perfect car, than to never finish building the perfect one.

Your car remains an inspiration, Larry, and not just for me.

Quoting curtis:






This is why I'm running the SRT4 IC (and the picture what helped me figure out how to install it.) As Larry said, it fits nicely around a DSM radiator. Considering they can be had for $20-$50, I might pick up a spare or two.

Quoting curtis:






First thing I notice - door cards. I need to figure something out. Saran wrap with gooey black tar can suck it, and factory door cards won't fit. Those are really nice and suggest it's best to wait for the door/sill bars to be installed before finalizing their design. (Though I would like to know the material used for those...)

I also notice the door bars. No doubt, they're solid, and I like the double bar action, but I think I'll opt for more of an shallow, gusseted X in that location.

Quoting curtis:






Looks like Larry ran the harnesses all the way back in the car. Very nicely tied together back there, although I can't make out how the cage is tied into the rear turrets in that picture. Looks more like wheel wheel (which is dome-shaped, and likely on the stronger side). The bulkhead between passengers and fuel cell is clean as well.

Quoting curtis:






Kinda need this bit to move the car to the shop for the cage. Once it comes back, I suspect I'll remove it, clean it, and address the 4WS lines.

Quoting curtis:






Elevated shifter and e-brake are on my #todo list fa show.

Quoting curtis:






HDPE FTW. Great, lightweight protection of brake and fuel lines, and apparently useful for retaining GVR4 lower mouldings. Might be a bit of a bitch to access anything under that during a 20 minute service, so I suspect I'll try to come up with another way to mount mine.

Larry also came up with a sweet design for a front skidplate that I'll be looking to replicate before too long.

Quoting curtis:






Please tell me that's an ice water reservoir for the AWIC or cool suits. That can't possibly be a fuel cell. Who would think that was a good idea?

Quoting curtis:






Illegal in rally. Exhaust must exit behind the driver/co-driver. (But cool for sure.)

This is good stuff, gents. Thanks for taking the time.

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jepherz Galant VR4.org Moderator
Too Clean
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50/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946685 posted 11/05/10 01:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
^^ yeah, for AWIC ice.



-Jeff
1881/2000
50/1000

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Larry Parker
Rally Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946720 posted 11/05/10 04:44 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can see a bit more of the rear towers here along with the fronts... Door cards where made from 1/8 textured ABS plastic from a local source...








Parker Rally Sport/Hotbits tuning USA
Rally America #622
OPEN class
click


Edited by Larry Parker (11/05/10 06:34 PM)

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DR1665
Kill him in the face with Wilson Phillips


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 946738 posted 11/05/10 05:40 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Thanks for the additional pictures, Larry. You da man. Very much appreciated.



Brian | 98 Pajero | Gearbox Magazine

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