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engine conversion


2badvr4
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164747 posted 03/26/14 06:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Looking for some honest advice...

I've been out of the car game for a long time and I've just bought myself my second VR4. Now, I'm looking for reliability first and foremost and possibly a modern spin on a classic. So I'm thinking later model Evo engine swap?

So my questions are:

1. To the best of my knowledge, up to evo 3 is virtually the same engine, after that it's flipped 180 so intake/exhaust is on the wrong side (right?). Then I heard evo x the engine gets flipped back... is my information correct?

2. Is an engine swap cost efficient?

3. Is this just a dumb idea and should I stick to freshening up the original motor?

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89Mirageman
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164753 posted 03/26/14 07:58 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Option 3 is probably what you'll get from most on here, it's my vote anyway.



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prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164755 posted 03/26/14 08:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Evo X is still flipped and same as the EVO 4-9. You can put an EVO head on the stock 4g63 block. It takes a lot of work, but can be done. You could fit an EVO 8 engine in the bay and fab up mounts and all that jazz, but your talking lots of fab work that requires high skill levels.

Yep, option 3 is the best idea. In all reality, unless your a glutton for punishment and have deep pockets and want to do something new, then just build the stock engine. You'll still make any power level you want.



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BogusSVO
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164778 posted 03/26/14 10:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The Evo X engine is not the same as the 4G63 engine, the Evo X has a 4B11T.

So drop the EVO X swap unless you want to redo and mod the whole front end.

The Evo IX has Mivec, so some fab and wire work will be needed to make that work.

Now the DSM 7 bolt and Evo 4-9 (?) are close to the DSM 7 bolts so the mounts for it are on the trans not the engine block.

So for ease and simplicity, rebuild what you have. Or think of a stroker.

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gaylantvr4
Joe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164856 posted 03/26/14 08:45 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The only advantage to a evo 4-9 motor is the transmission. They where designed to hold more power stock and seem to hold up better with alot of power other than that there would be no point in the extra fab work.



998/1000

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coyotes
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164857 posted 03/26/14 08:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
LS1 it.



1226/2000

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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164862 posted 03/26/14 09:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting gaylantvr4:

The only advantage to a evo 4-9 motor is the transmission. They where designed to hold more power stock and seem to hold up better with alot of power




Tell that to the 6spd MR guys lol.



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Edited by raptorreed (03/26/14 09:34 PM)

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turbowop
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1051/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164870 posted 03/27/14 12:35 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I think he means the 5-speed.



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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164875 posted 03/27/14 01:27 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I know , but them Evo guys love it when their transfer cases do the death whine nonetheless .



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Jesus_Negros
Unempowered ADMIN


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164879 posted 03/27/14 02:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Someone should do it. Dream and innovation guys.



Quoting coyotes:

Just because you WANT your rare turd to be valuable doesn't mean it's gonna be.




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Jesus_Negros
Unempowered ADMIN


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164880 posted 03/27/14 02:52 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
And money.



Quoting coyotes:

Just because you WANT your rare turd to be valuable doesn't mean it's gonna be.




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r4pt0x
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164914 posted 03/27/14 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Why should a newer engine autmagically be the more reliable one?

Mitsubishi also had to start saving weight and cost over time - older parts/engines/cars often have more reserves as the newer ones have. If they are well maintained they are at least as reliable as a new engine, if not more...

I've rebuilt a VR4 engine ~3 years ago and used the car as a daily-driver even on many long-distance travels doing >1000kms on one day. and here on the german autobahn with a long gearbox i was definately not going slow - the car has often seen speeds well over 250kph...
Never had a single problem with that engine in the ~20k kms since rebuild.

Put the money in a decent overhaul of your engine with OEM Mitsubishi parts - the only parts I have seen failing were aftermarket ones: water pumps (plastic wheel!), exhaust gaskets, hydraulic tensioners etc...

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SSGdave
Member
1855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164918 posted 03/27/14 01:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting coyotes:

LS1 it.







Yeah its me "SGTdave". ...and I still don't fuck around when there's work to be done.
1991 GVR4 1855/2000 - Daly Driver "Frankie"
1990 GGSX(turbo)- Project/Serious Road Race Car "Uncle Randy"

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SSGdave
Member
1855/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164920 posted 03/27/14 01:54 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting Turbro_Negro:

Someone should do it. Dream and innovation guys.




wait, I thought there was some guy in Malaysia that did an CT9A Evo engine and drivetrain into a E3X Galant?

either way it would be a lot of work and a lot of money.



Yeah its me "SGTdave". ...and I still don't fuck around when there's work to be done.
1991 GVR4 1855/2000 - Daly Driver "Frankie"
1990 GGSX(turbo)- Project/Serious Road Race Car "Uncle Randy"


Edited by SSGdave (03/27/14 01:55 PM)

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gaylantvr4
Joe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164992 posted 03/27/14 10:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting raptorreed:

I know , but them Evo guys love it when their transfer cases do the death whine nonetheless .




They both have flaws but the awd dsm trans was designed around a 100hp awd colt where as the evo was designed around a 250 hp evo



998/1000

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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1164997 posted 03/28/14 12:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting SSGdave:

Quoting Turbro_Negro:

Someone should do it. Dreamand innovation guys.




wait, I thought there was some guy in Malaysia that did an CT9A Evo engine and drivetrain into a E3X Galant?

either way it would be a lot of work and a lot of money.





It was a Eterna with a Evo 4+ head modified to fit a early block.



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2badvr4
Newbie


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165006 posted 03/28/14 06:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting r4pt0x:

Why should a newer engine autmagically be the more reliable one?

Mitsubishi also had to start saving weight and cost over time - older parts/engines/cars often have more reserves as the newer ones have. If they are well maintained they are at least as reliable as a new engine, if not more...

I've rebuilt a VR4 engine ~3 years ago and used the car as a daily-driver even on many long-distance travels doing >1000kms on one day. and here on the german autobahn with a long gearbox i was definately not going slow - the car has often seen speeds well over 250kph...
Never had a single problem with that engine in the ~20k kms since rebuild.

Put the money in a decent overhaul of your engine with OEM Mitsubishi parts - the only parts I have seen failing were aftermarket ones: water pumps (plastic wheel!), exhaust gaskets, hydraulic tensioners etc...




Maybe mor reliable was the wrong word, modern, fresh technology, mivec is supposed to be the bomb, yeah?


Edited by 2badvr4 (03/28/14 06:37 AM)

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fuel
"Just to be pedantic!"


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165007 posted 03/28/14 06:38 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
He's in Australia (though I think the guy is actually Malaysian), and the car is actually a Galant GSR hatch. The Eterna badge is for JDM cars only.



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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165081 posted 03/28/14 04:46 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Honestly though, when we all think Eterna, Galant hatch comes to mind, but say GSR and ECS FWD na 4g63 come to mind lol.

MIVEC is just valve timing, nothing special since MIVEC has been around since the 90s, they just didn't apply it to the 4g63 until the Evo 9 came out.
A later 4g63 conversion is not more modern its just a revised version of a 25+yr old motor lol.



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gaylantvr4
Joe


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165100 posted 03/28/14 09:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You can use kigglys mivec for a dsm if you you soldon mivec



998/1000

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r4pt0x
Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165120 posted 03/29/14 03:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting raptorreed:

Honestly though, when we all think Eterna, Galant hatch comes to mind, but say GSR and ECS FWD na 4g63 come to mind lol.

MIVEC is just valve timing, nothing special since MIVEC has been around since the 90s, they just didn't apply it to the 4g63 until the Evo 9 came out.
A later 4g63 conversion is not more modern its just a revised version of a 25+yr old motor lol.




Actually the 4G6 engine has its roots in a diesel engine from the 1960s

Have a look at the old 4G3 engines (Lancer Turbo) and the diesel engines in the L200 from recent years - they are based on the same initial design of the block and so does the 4G6 which shares lots of its design with them...

Mivec was already tested in the Lancer Turbo and Starion in motorsports - some of these cylinder heads ("sirius dash") even made it to the free world.

The mivec now used on most MMC engines is a completely different technology: phase shifting with only 1 cam profile.
The "original" Mivec used 2 cam profiles and interconnectable rocker arms (via oil pressure). on some engines even combined with single valve deactivation (MVV - mitsubishi vertical vortex) or even cylinder deactivation.


BOT:
We've converted several Colt CA and CJ to 4WD with evo drivetrain and also put a 4G93 DOHC from a CA into a CJ. The engine conversion isn't that complicated - the driveshafts and height of the engine dictate its position - so you really just mock up the engine into the engine bay until it fits under the hood and the driveshafts fit, then add the engine mounts...
This would be even easier with 4WD as the transfercase is another fixpoint so you have even less variation.

The rear axle and it's fixpoints have to be made on a car bench with tooling for the actual evo model you use the rear axle from. This would be the hardest part as the rear frame of the galant differs A LOT from evo/lancer/colt. colt and lancer were always quite similar underneath - so the frame crossmembers are in the same position at the colt to get the 4WD rear axle mounted on. The rear structure of the galant though is a completely different story if you want to use an evo rear axle...
The easiest approach (IMHO) would be building a tubular subframe (or modify one, e.g. the one from R4 kit) with all the mounting points for the suspension arms. thus the needed modification to the cars frame would be minimized (but the mounting points for the upper wishbone are still missing on the galant...)

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raptorWagon
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165130 posted 03/29/14 08:23 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Lancer EX Turbos were g62/g63 though, regular box types yeah came with 4g3x in them but not the turbos. Yeah I know the Sirius family is based of the Saturn motor family.



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belize1334
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165151 posted 03/29/14 01:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting prove_it:

Evo X is still flipped and same as the EVO 4-9.




Not exactly true. Yes the Timing side of the 4b11 is on the passenger side. But it also has the exhaust manifold against the firewall and spins the opposite way. So, if transplanted, it would be oriented correctly. But, good luck with the motor mounts and transmission...



Roger B. Scott
'91 Belize Green


Edited by belize1334 (03/29/14 01:59 PM)

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moduleunknown
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165263 posted 03/30/14 09:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting coyotes:

LS1 it.








'91 GVR4 777/2000

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Jesus_Negros
Unempowered ADMIN


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1165278 posted 03/30/14 10:49 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
LS-Jnava swap it.



Quoting coyotes:

Just because you WANT your rare turd to be valuable doesn't mean it's gonna be.




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