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1988 Dynamic 4 restoration / VR4 conversion (pictures)

r4pt0x

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Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
After driving a 2WD Galant GTI hatchback with 4g63T engine and long gearbox, i bought a 1988 dynamic 4 which was said to be rust-free..
Some of the rust i could spot before i bought it (and reduce the price), but the whole mess got uncovered when i started to disassemble the car.

At first i just wanted to make a quick&dirty repair and use it as a winter car for 2 years, but as the work and cost to get this car road-safe again is/will be way too much for a winter-car I will make it a full restoration. The engine will be replaced with the 4G63T engine i built for the 2WD galant 2 Years ago (only ~15k kms since rebuild).
It's a 6-bolt bottom end with VR4 internals, 4G67 head (both rebuild with new gaskets, bearings etc) + 4G67 intake manifold (smaller rooftop for higher compression and smaller manifold volume), MHI evo3 16G turbo, VR4 camshafts and evo 7/8 ECU. Power output was enough to easily spin the front wheels >100kph and i never reached the top speed the engine would have easily pulled the car to. ~270kph were enough to nearly crap my pants /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pictures from the engine rebuild (with ebay 16g for mock-up and first few kms until i got the MHI turbo delivered) can be found here:
click

So lets start with the rusty piece of metal i bought...

IMG_20131207_144510.jpg

IMG_20131208_165504.jpg

IMG_20131208_165444.jpg

IMG_20131208_165557.jpg

IMG_20131208_165607.jpg


The front left whel had a weird positive camber after i drove the car from the trailor onto the service lift. After removing the wheels i saw why: the linkage from the front damper to the knuckle was so rusty, it had already collapsed from the upper end and broken apart, so only some rust and the lower bolt was holding the wheel in place /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

The pictures are mainly from the rear end, because i started here and will work my way through to the front. As the front is in really bad shape (except for all parts visible :p) i will replace the whole front from the a-pillar forward with a rust-free VR4 frontcut from japan we've had sitting here for a few years.

The first 3 weekends were spent for the holes where the side skirts are mounted - they were only held in place by the glue stripe - and the rear left & right holes.
On the left side i just cut away the whole side pocket where the car jack would be - it was so rusty, i just poked through it from all sides when searching for some good sheet to weld on.

IMG_20131110_161440.jpg

IMG_20131117_154506.jpg

IMG_20131117_161306.jpg

IMG_20131117_154439.jpg


Then i dropped the rear axle, fuel tank and all mounting backets and brake/steering lines. All lines underneath the car were rusty and some already started to leak when they were bent just a little bit. So _all_ lines will be replaced by new ones through the passenger compartment.

Then i spend 3 days underneath the rear end, getting rid of all rust. The frame was gone on both sides where the diff support is mounted, so i removed all rust and reinforced this part with 2mm thick steel plates which run from the crossmember over the frame up to the support sheet of the rear strut. As the car will get strut braces front & rear i didn't go all the way up or added other sheets for reinforcement.

every spot of blank metal was passivated, coatd with zinc, filler and silver paint + clear lacquer. (pictures are mainly taken with the passivator freshly applied - its the milky stuff)

IMG_20131222_170428.jpg

IMG_20131222_170407.jpg

IMG_20131222_120858.jpg

IMG_20131222_171539.jpg

IMG_20131222_120941.jpg

IMG_20131222_120934.jpg


The rear axle will be replaced with the one that came with the VR4 frontcut - the diff is gone, but i have the driveshafts to fit the 4-bolt flanges. As i want to keep the 4WS functioning, i'll have a look on some evo 1-3 front differentials which have the speed gear ring on them - but these modifications run alongside with the body restoration.
As the upper suspension arms were missing on the VR4 axle, i refurbished the old ones. They already have been sand-blasted and painted, the bushings will be replaced with Evo9 uniball ones:

IMG_20131214_110148.jpg


all other bushings will also be replaced - either with new stock ones or stiffer evolution ones if they fit. As we have a big german rallye-team just across the street i have a huge assortment of new bushings from rallye-basecars to choose from...

I'll update this thread every few days if i think the progress is mentionable.
Of course any suggestions or comments are welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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iceman69510

Turn Right Racing
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You are a brave man.
 

EHmotorsports

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Sep 25, 2012
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Beaverton
if you ever move to the states you have a job here haha. love projects like this.
 

r4pt0x

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Finished the rear underbody today:

IMG_20131230_172506.jpg

IMG_20131230_172515.jpg


sprayed the upper suspension arms with filler and the first layer of black paint

IMG_20131230_172526.jpg


I also searched for rear diff options and found a diff housing with steering pump and a "viscous 3.909" sticker on it. Another (complete) diff without machined pump flange also with viscous diff and 3.6xx ratio. I also found a viscous diff unit, so i swapped the pump drive ring from the open diff onto the viscous unit - fits like a charm.

IMG_20131230_162759.jpg


Only problem: the crown wheel has a different inner diameter and bolt circle diameter:

IMG_20131230_172600.jpg


currently i'm thinking of 2 options:
1: find the matching 3.909 transfer assy (should be somewhere in our gearbox garage...)
2: machine down the diff housing ~2-3mm in radius (wall gets thicker at the transition to the flange) plus increasing the inner diameter of the crown wheel and add a new bolt circle with 22.5° offset to the smaller one. the diff should be machined to prevent breaking through the old bolt circle which would add a huge notch effect and weaken the crown wheel.

I currently prefer the second solution, because with the lower ratio of 2.864 the prop shaft will rotate much slower which should prevent vibrations at higher speeds. As I'm thinking about increasing the gearbox output ratio (or maybe switching to evo1-3 if theres a higher output ratio available) it would be better to have the lower ratio at transfer and rear diff...
The teeth on the crown wheel and pinion are wider at their base on the 2.864 ratio parts than on the 3.x ones - so they should also be more rigid.
 
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misterfixit

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Aug 4, 2004
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Location
Midlands, UK
I need to do the same to my vr4. its crusty as a crusty thing underneath... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I love seeing posts like this where people put in the hours on metalwork. Congrats on the progress and the work so far.

I see that one of the cheek panels off the bottom of the rear side of the quarter panels has been cut off completely and plated across. You'll may be interested to know this was one of the factory mods on the group a shells.

Rich
 

fuel

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
2,165
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
The non-turbo 2.846 diffs uses a smaller crown wheel and housing as you have found out. If you are going to swap to an Evo/VR-4 transmission you may as well just swap to the matching 3.545 VR-4 or 3.909 VR-4 Evo rear diff. I really don't think you're going to be able to get a VR-4 or Evo transmission to output low enough speed to suit a rear 2.846 diff while maintaining the stock front output speed.
 

r4pt0x

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Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
I was thinking about changing the overall output ratio of the gearbox via the intermediate shaft and center diff wheel. The ratios for front and rear will remain the same.
I will at some point rebuild the/a gearbox - i think next winter is realistic. Until then i can make enough research and eventually have parts made if necessary. I was told there are several gearboxes/diffs/drivetrain parts from VR4 to evo3 times left here at the rallye workshop. Maybe there is already some combination that suits my needs...

For now the main target is to get the car rebuilt and ready for inspection - any improvements i can make now are welcome, but expecially the gearbox rebuild/modification will be set back for later as its too time consuming for now. (and for now i need the money for other parts - gearbox rebuild will be at least ~1000 EUR in parts...)


@misterfixit:
I always wondered if this was done at rallye cars - these "side pockets" are completely useless and only collect any water that finds its way into the back of the car. So they *must* be rusty after several years...
At the right side the metal was OK from outside and front, but from underneath i had to remove a lot of rust - so maybe within the next 3-4 years i will cut the right side off as well.


edit:
according to the transmission manuals I currently have a gearbox with 5.208 output ratio.
Later models had 5.084, VR4 models had 4.933, USDM and eclipse D27 had 5.443.
So 4.933 is what i will go for as it's the longest available for the W5M33-2 gearboxes.
(My FWD had a 4.021 ratio...)
 
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r4pt0x

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Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Happy new year everyone!

After a "slight hangover" from new yar's eve I continued my work yesterday. Had to eliminate some small spots of rust underneath the trunklid seal yesterday and today i removed everything underneath the middle of the car and stripped the interior.

The underbody didn't looked that bad on the longitudal members:

IMG_20140103_155449.jpg

IMG_20140103_155459.jpg


I had expected worse, especially underneath the exhaust heat shield, but even the outer fold wasn't that crispy as i expected it. On my FWD I could poke through it nearly from front to rear without any good sheet of the floor panel left, but here i have at least a stable structure and also no damage to the longitudal members.

On the inside it was a bit more frustrating.
As I already suspected earlier the car was raped by some car-hifi idiots:

IMG_20140103_162213.jpg

IMG_20140103_162414.jpg

IMG_20140103_171022.jpg


Too dumb to find their own arse without a candle, compass and a map to take a sh*t, but fiddling around on cars... i hate those morons...

I found some of this green foam and a sponge under the side trunk panels which were damaged (poked) on some spots for mounts made of the cheapest type of sheet available on this planet and bolted on with cheap DIY-market bolts which were all rusty and most broke of when i tried to unscrew them. Most likely they were used to strap down a subwoofer, but those mounts wouldn't have held down anything on a crash...

Will see what sh*t I have to revert underneath the dashboard. As I anyways have to exchange it (some idiot bolted something directly onto the dashboard on the passangers side, damaging the surface) maybe i will also take the wiring loom from my hatchback if it's the same...

Anyways - I had quite a dirty forehead from all the facepalms I gave today...


The left rear seat had a wet spot on the upper side, but underneath the foam was already dissolved and kind of alive:

IMG_20140103_164151.jpg

IMG_20140103_164141.jpg


luckily we should have one of those left somewhere... The front seats were directly thrown away - i will use the sports seats from my '92 Galant E33 GTI with seat heater. They have the same cloth cover so they will fit in plus they have been completely cleaned a year ago (and will be again if I already have them taken out...).


Some specialist also welded a small spot within the left rear wheel well without removing the seat - luckily they missed the wiring loom and trunk lid cable by a few cm

IMG_20140103_164851.jpg



As expected every seam around the floor panels showed rust from the inside:

IMG_20140103_173154.jpg

IMG_20140103_173121.jpg

IMG_20140103_173200.jpg

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Also the seam from the floor panels to the front bulkhead showed rust even before removing all of the insulation:

IMG_20140103_173220.jpg

IMG_20140103_173144.jpg


That's not so bad as most of the front will be removed and replaced with the RHD front + new (and thicker) steel sheets i will add for reinforcement...


I also started to remove the seam sealing from the floor panels to the side member and as expected it was quite crusty underneath. Didn't take any pictures yet, but tomorrow i will remove all the sealant and take pictures of the whole mess...
I will most likely cut off the rusty inner sheet of the fold underneath the side sill and reinforce it with a 90° metal bracket from front to rear plus welding the side member and floor panels together every ~5cm to add some strength. I already did this mod to a lightweitght Colt CA0 bodyshell I built a few years ago and it adds a lot of torsional stiffness to the car at very low expense...


I also ordered the first ~200EUR worth of bits and pieces for the rear axle/suspension today. A lot of parts didn't have any delivery date at MME, so i'll have to wait what they can/want to provide... E.g. onle the right parking brake cable was available, so i ordered 2 of them as only the brackets are mounted the other way around...
Maybe I could need some help on the parts MME won't deliver anymore...

BTW: As Mitsubishi has only listed the whole rear side panel - can anyone cut off this part in good condition from a parts donor car?

IMG_20131207_144510.jpg


Couldn't find anyone here in germany who could provide me with this part "rust-free" and MME couldn't even deliver the side panel (plus it would cost ~200 EUR)...
 
Last edited:

misterfixit

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Aug 4, 2004
Messages
1,596
Location
Midlands, UK
Happy new year,

I'm enjoying watching this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ..

Did you try any stock, base model galants? the 1.8 carby version has no side cladding, so the rear corner of the sill is least likely to be a water trap, and less rusty. The panel from a hatch in that area is the same too.

Rich.
 

r4pt0x

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Couldn't find any E30 limousine donor yet - if the hatchback would be the same i'd cut it out from my FWD, but they have a slightly different shape as they are completely different cars from the A-pillar backwards... they even got a different windscreen and different doors! The radius and curvature on this part is slightly different and also the most important part, the edges to the door section don't match. If it only were the most outer part i would have used a flat sheet of metal, but rebuilding the edges and folds would be a PITA...

Problem here is, there are very few of those old cars left as of a govt program a few years ago called scrappage bonus. You got 2500 eur when you scrapped your old car and bought a new one with better emissions, so lots of those old cars disappeared.
Most old cars that are still driveable are now sold to eastern europe thanks to easier import/export within the EU or shipped to africa. All in all it's gotten really hard to find late-80s/early-90s cars that were relativeley rare anyways. Volkswagen and Opel are all around on the junkyards, but especially japanese cars are wanted by those export car-buyers as these cars and engines just run forever...
 
Last edited:

r4pt0x

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Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Today I removed all the noise insulation from the floor panels and underneath the rear seat.
Should be at least 10kg of bitumen:

IMG_20140104_173150.jpg


At the passenger side some of the welding spots from the longitudal members started to rust on the inside, as well as the overlap of the 3 sheets on the firewall where i could poke through into the longitudal frame. The gap between the floor panel and side sill didn't look that bad either - everything still solid and no holes.

IMG_20140104_141316.jpg

IMG_20140104_141331.jpg


The frame itself doesn't look that bad on the inside. Only directly underneath the cover it got some surface rust, but nothing serious

IMG_20140104_141323.jpg


At the back as expected the whole overlap started to rust underneath the sealant:

IMG_20140104_141304.jpg


On the drivers side I got really surprised. Normally this is the much worse side, as it's mostly damp over the winter months, but here its all just little surface rust and even the gap on the side sill is much better than on the passengers side.

IMG_20140104_173304.jpg

IMG_20140104_173258.jpg

IMG_20140104_173248.jpg


On the back its a little bit worse than on the passangers side, but also nothing too serious as i couldn't poke through it.

IMG_20140104_173212.jpg


The reason why its a bit worse on the drivers side:

IMG_20140104_150948.jpg


It was welded badly and with no sealant, so water got in and caused this:

IMG_20140104_150956.jpg


The carpet must have been soaked for a long time as it just lost all fabric at this corner when I cleaned it. The dissolved seat foam that had been stuck on the noise insulation also smelled quite badly...

Tomorrow I will put the rear axle back on so I can remove the lashing strap through the car and start cleaning all the rusty parts and the underside of the floor panels and add a few weld seams for reinforcement.

Noise insulation will be reinstalled after exchanging the front end of the car and painting the lower interior + engine bay. Yes, I could safe some weight, but this car will be my daily-driver and also has to cover long-distance drives and I'd rather add a little boost to compensate those 10-15kgs. The car will also get the A/C from my FWD and the pre-heater, so it's not as if every little bit of weight counts...
 
Last edited:

misterfixit

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Aug 4, 2004
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Midlands, UK
Yes, the hatch is actually an. eterna, and the a pillars are different. In front of the rear arch every thing below the windowline is the same.
The roofline of the eterna is 1inch lower than the saloon, so as you say the screen is a different rake.

The rear quarter panel, inner arch/ cheek part of the boot panel that you cut out is different. the front of the wheel tubs/inner arches and the front of the rear arch is exactly the same geometry and construction. The panel part numbers are different because the top and back are different.

The bonus of using an unclad car as repair panels means there were no rust trap holes.

I did the very same on my car. And have a stack of hacked up panels in the garage waiting to be put on my 4wd. The sills I have saved were from a 2wd hatch.

Up to the trim line (all that is rusty on yours) the panel is the same on ANY e3X galant.

Hope this helps,

Rich
 

r4pt0x

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Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
I compared it again to my hatchback - the visible panel on the outside might have the same shape, but the beadings that lead to the inside are differently shaped/curved, also the curvature of the folds is slightly different.
It's not that obvious when looking at only one of them, but when you put the cars next to each other and compare them directly you can see the difference...


Anyways, I continued my "rusty business" last weekend. I planned on bolting the rear axle back on to get some weight to the back of the car, but when i accidentially pushed away the rubber base on one side, i tried what happens when removing the rubber base on the other side:

IMG_20140105_114738.jpg


well... perfectly balanced /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
I left the strap for safety, but it had no tension on it. I could easily bob the car with one hand up and down /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

As i had enough room now, i cleaned off the rear side sill ends I had scheduled for later

IMG_20140105_133943.jpg

IMG_20140105_133951.jpg


Now came the crispy parts... At the transition to the floor panels 3-4 sheets of metal overlap on some regions. Thats where the rust was really bad so i had to cut out some parts:

CIMG0461.JPG


preapring the new sheet of metal

CIMG0462.JPG


And after ~1,5 hours of slowly welding spot by spot and embossing the plate to recreate the beading within the floor panel:

CIMG0463.JPG


The seam doesn't look that deep on the picture, but its ~1,5cm deep and curved at the edges. Quite tricky when you don't have that much metal left underneath to recreate the structure. I had to lean underneth the car with one arm to support the old sheet while embossing the new sheet from above...
Same procedure awaits on the drivers side :p

Before adding another sheet from underneath, I reinforced some parts of the frame:

IMG_20140107_192112.jpg

IMG_20140107_192133.jpg



Tomorrow the first parts should arrive - I hope I'll get most of the parts I've ordered, especially the rear axle mountings + rubbers and adjustment bolts for the upper arms so I can put the rear axle back in to move the car to another lift where I can work at the door sills...
 
Last edited:

FlyingEagle

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THE Ottawa
Is your hatch on youtube? I was perused the films there and saw a white hatch that got torn into for rust repair much like this.

Regardless, good to see you going this far in for repair work. Motivates me to get my rear quarters done.
 

r4pt0x

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
No, there are no videos of my hatchback. It's also silver/anthracite, not white.
I bought it as a winter car but ended up driving it for ~5 years, doing only small spot-repairs every year. I was always waiting for a 4wd in good condition so I never made a complete restoration thus it's really rusty underneath.

Technically it is in perfect condition - completely rebuilt engine, overhauled transmission, 4 new ECS dampers, new ECS compressor, new front & rear brake calipers (296mm outlander brake at the front) etc etc...

here are some pictures:
click

I will surely miss its ECS and long gearbox...



The dynamic/vr4 made some good progress this weekend.

I inspected the spot I was told to be "repaired" by the guy who sold the car to me - it was only a piece of a peanut can glued over the rust. Don't know what kind of glue the idiot used, but it caused all the damages on the inside to the paint and sealant, leading to most of the rust at the rear driver side...
If i'll ever meet him again he might have an accident... falling on my fist... with his face... 2 dozend times... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

IMG_20140111_111149.jpg

IMG_20140111_111159.jpg


As the glue was quite corrosive i had to get rid of lots of rusty metal:

IMG_20140111_132042.jpg

IMG_20140111_132050.jpg


I re-shaped the folds with 2.5mm sheet, spot welded a strip of 0.8mm sheet from the inside as support and welded it completely from the outside, adding some overlap to restore the strength of the rear frame.
(I always forget to take pictures BEFORE applying the passivation :p)

IMG_20140111_144544.jpg

IMG_20140111_144551.jpg

IMG_20140112_160518.jpg



The drivers side rear body panel was badly damaged, especially the overlap at the back end where 3-4 sheets overlap. I had to cut out a much bigger part than on the passengers side, so I had to re-shape 1 1/2 beadings of the floor panel.

IMG_20140111_164747.jpg

IMG_20140112_105353.jpg

IMG_20140112_141251.jpg


At the last picture you can see what damage the glue caused to the paint. You can clearly see where the water went from the glued hole down to the rear left footwell, where it slowly worked its way through the sealant to the multiple layers of metal joining there. As said: fist, face... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I already passivated, zinc coated and sealed the whole part, but completely forgot to take pictures this afternoon...

Tomorrow these spots will get painted and I can finally mount the rear axle to switch to another lift where I can reach the outer parts of the floor panels.

Another ~2-3 Weekends and I think the car will be ready for the car bench where I can exchange the front end.
 
Last edited:

r4pt0x

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Here comes a small update...

Last weekend i put the rear axle under the car and we moved it to another lift. I removed the dashboard + everything underneath and exposed the holes i already saw from the outside:

IMG_20140118_155717.jpg

IMG_20140118_155741.jpg

IMG_20140118_155859.jpg


Then I started to replace the outer side of the drivers side floor panel:

IMG_20140119_120802.jpg

IMG_20140119_144403.jpg


(forgot to take more pictures of this part...)

This Weekend I continued at the drivers side and removed the crossmember to replace the rusty parts underneath:

IMG_20140125_105231.jpg

IMG_20140125_111549.jpg

IMG_20140125_134009.jpg


And again the outer edge where the floor panel joins the sill:

IMG_20140125_170645.jpg

IMG_20140126_113535.jpg

IMG_20140126_113516.jpg


Finished:

IMG_20140126_173520.jpg

IMG_20140126_173707.jpg


At the front I'm waiting until I know how much I'll have to replace from the RHD frontcut, then I will finish the last ~30cm. At both sides i'll replace the whole outer part of the floor panel so i will have a rust-free connection to the sill.

I also started to remove the rear outer part on the passenger side - here I had to remove a much wider part of the floor panel:

IMG_20140126_144353.jpg


The shape of the floor panel is a bit complicated to recreate. I already made the basic shape with the increment and the fold. I think i'll do the ribbing step by step on afternoons this week...
 
Last edited:

G

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Feb 24, 2004
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zompton
You're crazy dude.
 

Leon_R

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Aug 30, 2011
Messages
214
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Chelmsford, MA
Wow, great work!

But looks like it will take around 150 to get rid of rust. Assuming very reasonable $30/hour, that is $4500 to make this a rust free shell!
 

r4pt0x

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
123
Location
Bavaria / Germany
I think I'm already at 150 hours... around 250-300 hours are realistic until the car is ready for inspection. Of course, getting this done at a workshop would be way too expensive. At least ~80 EUR/hour is the normal price here in germany for bodywork, so adding all the parts I already ordered and will need, I could easily buy a new evo for what this project would cost...
I definately wouldn't have started this if I couldn't do it all by myself. Luckily we have everything needed here at our mitsubishi workshop, including a spot welding machine and a car bench...
 
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