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Oil residue on intake manifold & throttlebody

pot

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More out of curiosity than anything I'm not exactly sure why I have residue on both the intake manifold and the throttle body. Is this indicative of either:

- poor crankcase ventilation
- worn seals on the 14b
- or perhaps something else?
- leaky valve stem seal on cylinder #2

Any input is greatly appreciated.



 
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DR1665

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Typical. Oil is circulating in/around the valvetrain. At 3000rpm, your cams are turning 1500rpm. That's 25 times per second. You've got 16 valve springs being compressed and released at those speeds. I don't want to say the oil is vaporized, but you know what I mean. And the PCV allows engine vacuum to draw that air out of the head. Thus, oily residue in your intake.

And I'm pretty sure oil in the IC plumbing is a function of old seals on the turbo.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, in which case someone will paraphrase something from Wikipedia or an old Hot Rod Magazine article here in a moment.
 

pot

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Appreciate the feedback DR1665 -Makes sense, I guess more than anything I'd like a solution to an oil/residue free intake tract. Probably not gonna happen I suppose. On a side note, I liked your article in Gearbox Magazine regarding Marco and Magnusmotorsports. I especially enjoyed the high quality photos.
 

LIV4PSI

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Wouldn't an air/oil separator help?
 

DR1665

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Quoting Pot:
Appreciate the feedback DR1665 -Makes sense, I guess more than anything I'd like a solution to an oil/residue free intake tract. Probably not gonna happen I suppose. On a side note, I liked your article in Gearbox Magazine regarding Marco and Magnusmotorsports. I especially enjoyed the high quality photos.



Thanks, man. Actually, that Magnus article was done entirely by Stephen Burke on this site. He's one of the One Lap guys.
 

turbowop

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That's probably where you're getting the residue from then. I have both ran to a catch can and get zero residue in my IC pipes or around the throttle body. They're squeaky clean inside. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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transparentdsm

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yeah same here i have my valve cover vents going to catch cans, only way for oil to get in there is for my turbo oil seals being bad at this point.

edit: if it was valve stem seals you would just be blowing blue smoke out the exhaust, the oil leaking from valve stems seals can't get into the turbo's compressor side.
 
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pot

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That's my next move then -appreciate the input gents. Transparentdsm, that makes sense too. I figured valve stem seals weren't apart of the equation. I'd really like to get one of those JMF Catchcans mounted on the passenger strut tower but want to keep to the washer fluid reservoir.
 

minneSNOWta

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If you read the VFAQ on the PCV system, then it will help you greatly. I chose to go with "Improved Factory Setup". Make sure to get sealed cans. The VFAQ explains why you shouldn't use breathers. I am no expert, but I tried to follow setup #1 to a tee. Open to comments on this as well.

I chose to use Boomba sealed cans. Calan on Tooners makes great cans as well and they are sealed. These have a window so you can see inside and come anodized. One inlet and one outlet at 3/8". Drain is easily accessible. Mounting is done via a horizontal bracket.


PCV to catch can to intake manifold.



Check valve.



VCV to catch can to air intake pipe.
 

GSX_TC

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What's wrong with using breathers though?
 

minneSNOWta

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I don't think you get me Pot, but whatever. Trying to give advice, but you mistook it.

You said you really want to use a JMF can right? Well it's going to have a breather on it. So sorry... Now when that breather gets soaked in earl, then it will be a matter of time before it's all over your engine bay instead of where it is now or contained in the can. Using a breather apparently also defeats the purpose of the PCV system according to VFAQ PCV SYSTEM.
 
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pot

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Sorry brother but I dont get you. I also don't get your last two posts either. It tells me you didn't bother to read the post traffic. I'm at a loss in what your really trying to say here as there is a distinction between a catchcan which has a breather and a plain jain breather attached to a valve cover.

Also, take a look at the first image I posted. Is that catchcan's filter soaked in "Earl?"

*I appreciate your input nonetheless
 

minneSNOWta

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Well it may not be covered in earl, but you are leaking vacuum. I did read the posts and I tried to explain why you shouldn't use a breather on a catch can. Breather filter, not referring to "breather" as the valve cover vent. Read that article already. Catch cans that work are sealed. Those who use breather filters don't know how their PCV system works. That's what I was told once, kind of.

I think you may have poor crankcase ventilation.
 
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minneSNOWta

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This is from Michael at FP.

Quote:
If you're not pulling a vacuum on your catch can you are doing it wrong.

The stock PCV system other than the size of the lines is by far the best way to setup a crankcase ventilation system. If your motor is tight and you have very little crankcase issue more than likely a catch can does nothing for you other than removing the oil from the intake system.

If you have a some crankcase issue enough to where you see some light smoke on decel you're producing more than the stock PCV system can handle and it's pushing enough oil into the intake to make it smoke. Putting a catch can that doesn't pull a vacuum and is vented will make the smoke go away but won't really alleviate your crankcase pressure. It just gives the oil some place to go while the pressure persists, all you've effectively done is increase your crankcase pressure.

Now if you're on a freshly built motor, a motor with loose tolerances, or just a worn out motor you might have excessive crankcase pressure. This can cause all sorts of fun issues, smoking at idle/cruise, smoking under load, smoking on decel, and even pressurizing the bearing housing of the turbocharger and forcing oil out of it. In this instance to truly alleviate your crankcase issue you need to IMPROVE the stock system which means it needs to retain at least the vacuum under load. So the best way to do this is to increase the size of the lines and either run them directly to vacuum sources or run them to a baffled catch can and then run the vacuum sources directly off that.

We have done the testing and so had Garrett and Holset as little as .1PSI in a bearing housing can cause leakage. Let that sink in a for a minute just that little bit of pressure can cause this to happen. A catch can vented to atmosphere with stock sized lines is useless and if you measured pressure in your crankcase vs. the stock system you would see a rise in pressure with removing the vacuum and adding a catch can alone. So if you want to do it properly and get the best of both words, run a baffled catch can with it pulling a vacuum, no oily mess in your intake or engine bay and you still get the benefit of having your crankcase scavenged of excessive pressure.

-Michael
]
 

pot

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Quoting minneSNOWta:
Well it may not be covered in earl, but you are leaking vacuum. I did read the posts and I tried to explain why you shouldn't use a breather on a catch can. Breather filter, not referring to "breather" as the valve cover vent. Read that article already. Catch cans that work are sealed. Those who use breather filters don't know how their PCV system works. That's what I was told once, kind of.

I think you may have poor crankcase ventilation.



I appreciate where your heart is however I disagree. I'm fairly certain the very minimal oil residue found on both the intake/throttlebody is attributed to lack of a catchcan on the valve cover breather which Wop was kind enough to identify.

As far the distinction between a sealed vs. breather catchcan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif I bought mine from RRE, need I say more?

Why do you think I have poor crankcase ventilation?
- PCV Valve is good, blows one-way
- Dipstick never pops out
- Catchcan contains fluid

Why do you think I'm leaking vacuum?
- Vacuum is pegged at 16 inches Hg
- @ 254ft elevation
- On HKS 272's
 
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