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Strange Problem...Car will not move even when engages in gear....

alansupra94

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Mar 3, 2010
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Wayne,NJ
I seem to have a strange problem. I recently removed the clutch and flywheel to rebuild the engine. I am pretty sure everything went back in correctly as I have done this before. I will summarize it with a list:

1. Without the clutch engaged in any gear, the car does not move.
2. The clutch fork is moving properly.
3. (only tried this in first), the speedometer moves up with the RPM as if we were moving.
4. The gear selector works perfect

What would cause these symptoms?

Thanks,
Alan
 

TurboDSM

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Mar 7, 2012
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58
Location
Merica
Axles in?
Torque the pressure plate down all the way?
 

Barnes

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Richland, WA
+1 Axles in all the way.
 

jmorri15

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I would bet on something clutch related. I would have said on of the axles not in all the way, but the car will drive with both front halfshafts not in, because of the AWD sending power backwards.
 

Barnes

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I disagree that it is clutch related, but you make a valid point about the AWD system.

If his speedo is going up, his clutch is obviously transmitting force into the transmission. Enough to spin the front differential and provide a speedo reading.

However I think you are right that even if one of the front axles is out, or both, the car should at least move because the VC is trying to transfer power to the rear.

I'd double check all your t-case related stuff while you are down there. What spline count is your t-case?
 

jmorri15

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it would be really hard to have both the tcase and one front axle not in. maybe the transmission is not tight to the engine or the engine is shifted towards the passenger side but other then that unless the trans is f'ed then i would say clutch
 

Barnes

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So how is the front diff turning, but the car isn't moving? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 

Barnes

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Alan, what kind of MPH do you see on the speedo when you tried it in first gear?
 

toybreaker

iconoclast
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Apr 30, 2006
Messages
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... that's a funky scenerio

do you hear any noises/feel any vibration while in gear?



Have you had the transmission apart?

... is the viscous coupler/center diff still sitting on the bench? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

turbowop

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Apr 29, 2001
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Location
Yakima, WA
Maybe one axle is out and possibly the VCU is toast, and not really transmitting much power to the xfer case via the open center diff. Or one rear axle is broken as well.
 
Last edited:

Barnes

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Quoting toybreaker:
... is the viscous coupler/center diff still sitting on the bench? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif



Hahaha, I thought about that, because that would do it, but I didn't want to embarrass him publicly if that was it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
 

toybreaker

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Allan has a good sense of humour.

... he proved it when everybody gave him sh*t over his solar panel installation.


As far as this particular problem goes, it almost *has* to be an internal transmission problem.

I would *imagine* that an axle that wasn't all the way in would make some nasty noises.

For the speedo to "read", some bits are turning

... but, since the car doesn't move, it's down to something "weird"

Time to put it securely back up on stands and see what, if anything turns

be safe, keep someone in the drivers seat at all times, and do NOT get under the car, just look from the side

edit
This reminds me of the time we put a jack under the rear end housing of an fng's first clutch job and lifted it "just" enough that the wheels weren't touching the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif

"say, boss, something ain;t right here"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

... gotta have a sense of humour and be able to laugh at yourself or these cars aren't for you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
Last edited:

alansupra94

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Wayne,NJ
Well I can assume you the transmission hasn't been taken apart since the last time I drove it, so that rules the transmission out. Also, I am 100% sure that the axles are in properly. There really isn't any weird noises either.

I should mention that when the speedometer goes up, it seems to go up matching the rpm of the car. I have only seen that happen once so far.

I get the feeling that it has to be clutch related as that is the only thing that was messed with. I might have not torqued down the clutch enough. I will be checking it tonight to see.
 

Barnes

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Okay, here's the deal:

The front diff housing HAS to rotate for your speedo to show something other than zero. The speedo needle is magnetically coupled to the speedo cable, which is mechanically connected to the front diff with a set of worm gears. The driving worm gear is ON the front diff. So the front diff HAS TO ROTATE!

If your diff is rotating, but your wheels aren't rotating, the rotation is not being transmitted from the diff housing to the axles. This leaves really only a couple possibilities. A)One or both of your axles is not pushed in all the way. or B)Something is really wrong with your spider gears.

In the A scenario if ONE axle is not in all the way, the diff can spin and not impart ANY load on the other axle. The spider gears (in an open diff) will just spin around and do nothing.

I don't think scenario B is plausible without a ton of noise.

However, this doesn't address how the front diff could spin, yet the car doesn't move. Because the Viscous coupler is STILL trying to send power to the rear wheels. (If there was something wrong with the VC or center diff, it's likely the front diff wouldn't spin either.)

Now, if the center diff was fine, but the VC fell off, that might be a possible explanation. Since open diffs send power to the path of least resistance (the slipping wheel) a missing VC would mean that the center diff spider gear that is connected to the t-case output shaft would be effectively anchored. This would send ALL the power to the front diff. However, there would still have to be a disconnected axle in the front diff to get the speedo to still move.

Another possibility is that the output shaft to the t-case was not secured and somehow is ‘falling out’, i.e. no longer connected to its respective center diff spider gear. In this scenario the VC is still functioning correctly. Since the VC would maintain a relatively matching speed between the center diff housing, and the t-case output shaft spider gear, all power would be sent out the opposing spider gear and thus to the front diff. However again, one or both front axles would have to be disconnected. (The other possibility in a similar scenario is that the t-case is not installed all the way, OR the t-case input is stripped, OR the driveshaft is not connected to the t-case, however these would be noisy or messy or very noticeable IMO.)

So I would suggest a couple easy checks:
1)Jack up ONLY the front of the car. Grab one front wheel and spin it. Does the other wheel spin, and spin in the opposite direction.

2)Jack up the front of the car in a way that it only lifts one front tire. Try to spin the tire. Can you spin it?

2)Jack up ONLY the rear of the car. Grab one rear wheel and spin it. Does the other wheel spin, and spin in the opposite direction. (This will big much harder if you have an LSD.)

3)Jack up the rear in a way that it only lifts one rear tire. Try to spin that tire. Can you spin it? If so can you observe the driveshaft turning?

As for the clutch slipping, I think that is absolutely not the problem. For the people that thinks it is the clutch, please explain how the front diff is turning and giving a MPH reading through the speedo, yet the car isn’t moving.
 

mitsuturbo

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I know it's a foreign idea for most of us here, but you might want to try taking the car off jackstands.

Just a thought.
 

Barnes

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Richland, WA
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowroflr.gif
 

toybreaker

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Apr 30, 2006
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Damn good post, Barnes!


It is a really weird problem, when you add in the speedo moving.

...and I agree that with the information given that it is very unlikely to be a clutch problem.



Quote:
I know it's a foreign idea for most of us here, but you might want to try taking the car off jackstands.



... classic ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
 

steve

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NJ
Quoting mitsuturbo:
I know it's a foreign idea for most of us here, but you might want to try taking the car off jackstands.

Just a thought.



+1000 internets for MT today. Well played sir.
 

alansupra94

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Mar 3, 2010
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Location
Wayne,NJ
Sorry, can't be on jackstands. Barnes currently has them up his butthole.

I will definitely test the wheels tomorrow and let you know the results.
 
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