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New Engine

Chad989of2000

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2005
Messages
1,791
Location
Livermore, CA
I would say budget and build goals drive this choice more than anything. I've found that buying a used engine is almost always the least reliable way to go (albeit the cheapest). If you shop around you can find a good deal on a rebuilt. It's on you to order from a reputable shop and thoroughly inspect it before installation. If you have the money, buying a "built" engine from a performance shop is also a good option, but like I said...budget and build goals are your deciding factors.
 

2of9

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
869
Location
IGH, MN
New, like a freshly rebuilt one? I knew of a couple local guys selling their well built long blocks for right under $1k. Even well built short blocks were going for $500-$600, IIRC, these blocks had at least double the $$$ in the block. If I were to get a rebuild, I believe there is a really good read on rebuilding your engine on here somewhere. Personally, I wouldn't buy a rebuilt engine if some guy 'rebuilt' it in his garage...I'd rather trust a reputable shop that built the engine.
 

trunks

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
268
Location
Annandale, MN
^ x2. What he said. I've been down that path and am now on my 3rd engine in just over a year. I finally had it rebuilt by a reputable shop and won't ever buy a 'good used engine' again. I don't care what the seller says.
 

cheekychimp

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
7,333
Location
East Sussex, U.K.
I can see the logic in going with a reputable shop for building an engine and for the record, I have gone that route. That said, I don't think the fact that some guy built an engine in his garage is grounds on it's own to assume the block is full of fail. Shop's charge a premium for their time but there are a lot of guys on here in the know that spend more time and care putting their own blocks together in their garage, than any mechanic who is getting paid by the hour to work on someone else's.
 

Quoting 2of9:
New, like a freshly rebuilt one? I knew of a couple local guys selling their well built long blocks for right under $1k. Even well built short blocks were going for $500-$600, IIRC, these blocks had at least double the $$$ in the block. If I were to get a rebuild, I believe there is a really good read on rebuilding your engine on here somewhere. Personally, I wouldn't buy a rebuilt engine if some guy 'rebuilt' it in his garage...I'd rather trust a reputable shop that built the engine.



Would you have any information on any of these local guys sales built engine under $1k. I see the point from both sides and I have seen the results of both builds from so called pro shops and motors built by some guy in their garage.Doesn't always turn out the way you expect it would.I have never rebuilt or had an engine rebuilt before but I have seen the prices that "professional" shops charge. Money is tight right now but I refuse to JSB so I may have to look for an inexpensive solution until then. If I can get a "well built long block for right under $1k that would be even better.I have been looking at some of these engines for sale and everyone seems to be using eagle rods? I know they had some issues before with con rod bolt failure has this been corrected and what are the limits to these rods with proper tuning and support mods. I would rather spend a little more now and get better stronger rods than having to do this if and when I can surpass the 500/600awhp is this still the limit of the eagle rods. If I decide to change my engine I want to make sure it can handle whatever I throw at it within reason of course while being reasonably priced. Just don't want to pay too much or pay too little and end up with a pos either way...Thanks guys more opinions are welcome personal experience and or facts go a long way please no hear say.My current engine is not done yet but she has a lot(217k) of aggressive driving on her and she is in need of a new or rebuilt heart for the next phase....Thanks again and keep it coming...
 

Brianawd

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
2,117
Location
Portland OR,
Some of the fastest 4G63 motors are built in some guys garage. I have seen my fare share of built motors that came from big name shops fail. I have also see my fare share of motors fail that were built in Joe blows garage.

I really feel that if you are going to be racing and playing with your car you should build your own motor. But that just me. Reason is I am really picky on how I do things. I clean the block over and over and over. clean every oil galley. Hand lap the block and Head. Measure every thing twice and most important is I take my time.
 

Exactly. Any idiot can put a motor together with just some simple reading and math skills. f***, I did it and im half retarded.
 

GSX_TC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Messages
3,722
Location
Houston, Texas
Lol
 

Quoting Smitty1457:
Exactly. Any idiot can put a motor together with just some simple reading and math skills. f***, I did it and im half retarded.



As much as I would love to put together my own engine that's impractical for me. I don't have a garage and my friend's garage is full sh*t and dirt not the best place for a build, plus my time is better spent making $$$$$ than putting motors together.This is not to say I'm some rich spoiled kid either I am a lot older than most guys here and not rich by any means besides family time is more important than engine builds. My condo association has strict rules and policies on working on cars in the parking lot also. I can barely wash my cars out there without catching a sh*t storm and in case you are wondering yes I am an owner,its just the rules so I have to abide by them until I decide to buy buy a house with a garage, stupid condo. By the way I don't agree with some simple reading and math skills enabling you to put a motor together. I am very apt at both of those things but I think mechanical ability goes a long way, if was that easy everyone would do their own engines and all those big and small shops would be out of business.As talented as the members are on this forum what percentage do you think actually built their own motors that have stayed together? I am willing to bet its less than a handful, and its the guys who have been doing this for a while. I love this car and yes it cost a small fortune to keep her running, I am not a mechanic and never pretended to be. I do what I can to the best of my abilities, if its beyond my skill sets then I find someone who is better than me plain and simple. I am a realist and that's the reason my car never JSB for any extended period of time or doesn't look like a pos sorry. So lets go read and build some rockets then lol..... we can't all be good at the same things life would be boring.........
 

trunks

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
268
Location
Annandale, MN
I would be curious to know as well about those folks who built there own engines how they held up. I've kicked it around too, but then I think about my first clutch install and having to take the tranny out 3 times before I got it right. Of course I was really a noob back then but I just wanted to have it done the first time and not have to worry about something I messed up. I dd my VR4 which makes a difference for me too.
 

The first engine I put together (about 5 years ago) wasn't for my car, but it is still pluggin away. Having a good machine shop helps, because I was trusting enough to not measure anything. It could've very easily had a different outcome.

About two years ago a friend bought a Talon with a brand new fresh rebuild (less than 100 miles) and it had three major issues that I had to go in and fix within the first ~200 miles that he owned it. The lifters were shot, pulled and replaced those right away, but there was still a noise so we yanked the engine and pulled the crank, found early stages of bearing failure. The assembler didn't flip the B/S bearings (after B/S elim) so the block was way short on oil pressure. 100 or so miles after it was back in the car, the H/G blew. Apparently the ARP studs weren't torqued correctly because the center two came out by hand, and the block and head were still so flat (less than .001" warp) that we didn't even bother with milling the head. We put a new MLS in and it has been fine ever since. 20 lbs on a B16G smoking STi's every chance he gets. The sh*t of this whole situation is that the rebuilder did excellent machine work here as well. The assembler just sucked ass.
 
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Im not a mechanic, I paint ships for a living but I managed to put my motor together just fine. Its been over 2 years and no issues yet. Like I said, some basic reading and math skills go a long way. I put mine together in my living room and washed some parts in my dishwasher. Its a rental so what. A dial caliper, cylinder-bore gauge and torque wrench go a long way. Just double check your machinists work.

One of my favorite sayings is, "chances are, someone dumber than you has done it before"
 

^^^^^^I agree with you on some points and you never know until you try I guess. Checking the machinists work on any build should be done. I have seen one too many builds come into my friends garage that was done by big name shop that ends up as scrap metal because the machine shop didn't measure sh*t correctly. Good machine shops are hard to find around here. They are notorious for getting bearing measurements and piston clearances wrong. At this point in time I may enlist the help of the second fastest galantvr4 to help me with this build guess I just have to get my hands dirty and no I am not building it in my bedroom lol.Question now is how far should I go with this thing? If I am rebuilding I want a monster motor capable of making some serious power no more B16g turbo.Does anyone know the power handling limits of the eagle rods? I know they had a bad rep back in the day, was that due to the smallish rod bolts that were used or something else? Should I just forget about them and go to a quality rod like carrillo,pauter,manley etc? Thanks again fellas and wish me luck lol....I mean monster as in once I get the car dialed in and tuned and decide to go with a monster turbo like a 42R monster like my friend runs on his evo. I'm done losing to these bastard light weight cars from a roll...
 
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trunks

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
268
Location
Annandale, MN
I guess that I am lucky to have a good machinest local. He's built two engines for me for my wife's Saab and my Galant and both are running great. I guess I should clarify that I haven't attemped the rotating assembly and head work, but as far as reassembly I think anybody can do that with some reading and proper tools. I put them both back together with no issues and no leaks what so ever.

The first one I bought from a member here blew rings after idling for 2 minutes. The second was a local guy and it ran but sounded bad and leaked badly from the timing belt. Pulled it apart and there was gunk all over the pistons and head.

Eagle / Wiseco combo is pretty popular and the price is right. I'm not sure what you mean by monster, but I think that's good for 600hp.
 

DynastyLCD

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
761
Location
Harwinton, CT
i was in your shoes when i graduated tech school. i thought to myself; maybe i should trust my friend who i went to school with.... biggest mistake ive ever made. i bought a "built motor" with "HKS 272's" and some other mods..... it was stock cams off a tooth, the "builder" didnt even match the rod caps with the rods.... the rings werent put on the pistons correctly... the head was milled too far down... the ARPs were finger tight at best... cylinder walls were scored... too much bullshit. i fired the engine and it was knocking, after i had invested into fixing the t-belt issue. i will never buy a used engine ever again. build your own if you can. buy another block, do it right, have a friend whos savvy with engine building help you if you can. remember one other important thing - nobody will ever prioritize your build the way you will. this is why my "built motor" basically turned into a bare block. now that bare block is a 2.3 that i built, and know will be good. lesson learned the hard way, over 2k later.
 
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