I promised myself that I wasn't going to spend anymore money on this car...I was suppose to only change my radiator to a civic style, but I started to tear things apart. I bought a FRH manifold, rerouting the IC pipes, and lifters. Now, I'm about to order DSMlink and new injectors. The problem I`m having is that I don't know the size of injectors to get to run E85. Some say 1000cc and some say go 1200cc. I`m also debating if I should get some cams or not...What do you guys think? I really don't want to dump more money in the car, but I keep telling myself that since the car is apart, I might as well do some upgrades. Beats me taking it apart again in the future in case I change my mind.
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Money pit...
- Thread startervtecds1
- Start date
OMFGeofffff
Well-known member
Why would you NOT have cams if you're setting it up to run E85? I would assume you already have or are getting a pretty decent size turbo....can't see why you'd want to run stock cams.
^^^I was going to ask them before ordering, but it's the cam situation that is holding me up. I`m looking at $300-$550 on cams, depending which ones...and $100-$400 on the spring and retainers.
Quoting OMFGeofffff:
What turbo will you be running? The bottom chart is pretty good to figure out what you will need size wise. click
Thanks for the link...Exactly what I was looking for in terms of reg gas and E85.
Quoting sargeek1975:
Why would you NOT have cams if you're setting it up to run E85? I would assume you already have or are getting a pretty decent size turbo....can't see why you'd want to run stock cams.
I`m running a Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim. As for why I`m debating on running cams or not...I guess it's down to if I want to dump more money into it. If I can get passed the 400hp mark on a setup without cams I'll be happy. Well, take that last sentence with a grain of salt...because I will probably be craving for more after my build. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Quoting OMFGeofffff:
What turbo will you be running? The bottom chart is pretty good to figure out what you will need size wise. click
Thanks for the link...Exactly what I was looking for in terms of reg gas and E85.
Quoting sargeek1975:
Why would you NOT have cams if you're setting it up to run E85? I would assume you already have or are getting a pretty decent size turbo....can't see why you'd want to run stock cams.
I`m running a Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim. As for why I`m debating on running cams or not...I guess it's down to if I want to dump more money into it. If I can get passed the 400hp mark on a setup without cams I'll be happy. Well, take that last sentence with a grain of salt...because I will probably be craving for more after my build. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But that's what I'm not understanding.......?
If you're not upgrading the cams why upgrade anything at all? Just slap a big ole turbo on there while rocking the stock IC/piping, stock exhaust.....stock everything!!!!!
Why? Cause all the stock stuff will hold the turbo back from running at the peak of it's efficiency. Same goes with upgrading the cams.
Get some 272's at least; I don't think you'll be happy with stockers.
If you're not upgrading the cams why upgrade anything at all? Just slap a big ole turbo on there while rocking the stock IC/piping, stock exhaust.....stock everything!!!!!
Why? Cause all the stock stuff will hold the turbo back from running at the peak of it's efficiency. Same goes with upgrading the cams.
Get some 272's at least; I don't think you'll be happy with stockers.
Brunoboy
Well-known member
Quoting sargeek1975:
But that's what I'm not understanding.......?
If you're not upgrading the cams why upgrade anything at all? Just slap a big ole turbo on there while rocking the stock IC/piping, stock exhaust.....stock everything!!!!!
Why? Cause all the stock stuff will hold the turbo back from running at the peak of it's efficiency. Same goes with upgrading the cams.
Get some 272's at least; I don't think you'll be happy with stockers.
I apologize if I didn't list my mods...The cams I can live without, I'm just debating on if I should pick it up while my valve cover is off and I have to change the lifters anyway.
Here's my list-
Engine (by Class One/ installed by SOLNGV8)
2.0 (bored .20 properly clearanced per piston specs)
Polished crank
Eagle Rods (machined for proper clearances- no good out of the box)
8.3:1 Ross pistons
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Cometic HG
Complete rotating assembly balanced
Head (by Forrester Racing)
FRH bowl porting/valve job
Stock internals
FRH Intake manifold
Turbo & Intake
Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim
Apexi Skyline intercooler
Custom piping
2g mas
Custom tubular manifold
HKS wastegate w/atmosphere dump
1G bov (crushed)
Exhaust (by previous owner Doug Derby)
1G 3" SS custom exhaust turbo back
Suspension
KYB AGX
Whiteline rear and front sway bar
Cooling
Civic radiator
Perma cool fan
Drivetrain
Stock rebuilt tranny @ 56xxx by HPH
ACT 2600
Braided clutch line
Electronics
Greddy Profec B-SpecII boost controller
Blitz Turbo timer
SPI boost gauge.
AEM wideband gauge
Autometer oil pressure gauge
Fuel
Walbro 255 fuel pump-rewired
Fuel Lab 515 AFPR
But that's what I'm not understanding.......?
If you're not upgrading the cams why upgrade anything at all? Just slap a big ole turbo on there while rocking the stock IC/piping, stock exhaust.....stock everything!!!!!
Why? Cause all the stock stuff will hold the turbo back from running at the peak of it's efficiency. Same goes with upgrading the cams.
Get some 272's at least; I don't think you'll be happy with stockers.
I apologize if I didn't list my mods...The cams I can live without, I'm just debating on if I should pick it up while my valve cover is off and I have to change the lifters anyway.
Here's my list-
Engine (by Class One/ installed by SOLNGV8)
2.0 (bored .20 properly clearanced per piston specs)
Polished crank
Eagle Rods (machined for proper clearances- no good out of the box)
8.3:1 Ross pistons
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Cometic HG
Complete rotating assembly balanced
Head (by Forrester Racing)
FRH bowl porting/valve job
Stock internals
FRH Intake manifold
Turbo & Intake
Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim
Apexi Skyline intercooler
Custom piping
2g mas
Custom tubular manifold
HKS wastegate w/atmosphere dump
1G bov (crushed)
Exhaust (by previous owner Doug Derby)
1G 3" SS custom exhaust turbo back
Suspension
KYB AGX
Whiteline rear and front sway bar
Cooling
Civic radiator
Perma cool fan
Drivetrain
Stock rebuilt tranny @ 56xxx by HPH
ACT 2600
Braided clutch line
Electronics
Greddy Profec B-SpecII boost controller
Blitz Turbo timer
SPI boost gauge.
AEM wideband gauge
Autometer oil pressure gauge
Fuel
Walbro 255 fuel pump-rewired
Fuel Lab 515 AFPR
Quoting brunoboy:
DKS Cams are pretty reasonable in price.
I was looking into those or the Delta Cams. Delta is under $200. I`m still trying to do some more research on the regrinds though...Springs and retainers are my list also although I've heard people running 264 or 272's without them as long as they don't rev to the moon.
DKS Cams are pretty reasonable in price.
I was looking into those or the Delta Cams. Delta is under $200. I`m still trying to do some more research on the regrinds though...Springs and retainers are my list also although I've heard people running 264 or 272's without them as long as they don't rev to the moon.
thecman02
Well-known member
If you want 400whp on e85 I suggest you getting 1350cc blue max injectors from FIC. It will still leave you around 75-80idc which is safe and you have some room to grow if you push. They still have good driveablility on gas too. For cams I'd get the k272's from delta. They are very similar to kelford and are not a regrind unlike the other delta cams. You want the cams trust me! My car doesn't have cams and it is something I regret, and am doing very soon. I've run 30psi on my borg warner turbo and I can really feel the cams being a cork. IF you get the cams it will make hitting your hp goal easy.
If you can 'live' without cams then live without them.
..........just seems pretty weird to have that long list of after market/upgraded parts with cams not being included.
You're the one who posed the question; we're answering it at your request. For me; I need to have an end result in my head before I start buying parts. Knowing the HP you wanna put down let's you know what you need and what you don't. You can only get so far in performance before it's the cams holding you back.
IMHO cams are something I would replace before I upgrade a turbo; but that's me. I'd rather have all the supporting mods done first; cams (again; IMHO) being one of them..........
..........just seems pretty weird to have that long list of after market/upgraded parts with cams not being included.
You're the one who posed the question; we're answering it at your request. For me; I need to have an end result in my head before I start buying parts. Knowing the HP you wanna put down let's you know what you need and what you don't. You can only get so far in performance before it's the cams holding you back.
IMHO cams are something I would replace before I upgrade a turbo; but that's me. I'd rather have all the supporting mods done first; cams (again; IMHO) being one of them..........
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^^^If you read one of my posts, I did say I want to hit in the area of 400hp.
I did ask for people opinions, and I am taking them as a consideration. As for a long list of parts, you have to be kidding me...So what your telling me is that cams are a must to hit my goal?
Quote:
IMHO cams are something I would replace before I upgrade a turbo; but that's me. I'd rather have all the supporting mods done first; cams (again; IMHO) being one of them..........
Turbo was already there from the previous owner as with a couple of other things.
I did ask for people opinions, and I am taking them as a consideration. As for a long list of parts, you have to be kidding me...So what your telling me is that cams are a must to hit my goal?
Quote:
IMHO cams are something I would replace before I upgrade a turbo; but that's me. I'd rather have all the supporting mods done first; cams (again; IMHO) being one of them..........
Turbo was already there from the previous owner as with a couple of other things.
Brunoboy
Well-known member
Cams make it easier to hit your goal, I want to run a 264/272 combo but for some reason I'm leanig tirades 272/272 because I heard it's not that bad , someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Quoting vtecds1:
As for a long list of parts, you have to be kidding me...
Uh...........are you kidding me?
Quoting vtecds1:
Here's my list-
Engine (by Class One/ installed by SOLNGV8)
2.0 (bored .20 properly clearanced per piston specs)
Polished crank
Eagle Rods (machined for proper clearances- no good out of the box)
8.3:1 Ross pistons
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Cometic HG
Complete rotating assembly balanced
Head (by Forrester Racing)
FRH bowl porting/valve job
Stock internals
FRH Intake manifold
Turbo & Intake
Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim
Apexi Skyline intercooler
Custom piping
2g mas
Custom tubular manifold
HKS wastegate w/atmosphere dump
1G bov (crushed)
Exhaust (by previous owner Doug Derby)
1G 3" SS custom exhaust turbo back
Suspension
KYB AGX
Whiteline rear and front sway bar
Cooling
Civic radiator
Perma cool fan
Drivetrain
Stock rebuilt tranny @ 56xxx by HPH
ACT 2600
Braided clutch line
Electronics
Greddy Profec B-SpecII boost controller
Blitz Turbo timer
SPI boost gauge.
AEM wideband gauge
Autometer oil pressure gauge
Fuel
Walbro 255 fuel pump-rewired
Fuel Lab 515 AFPR
Ya; I would consider that a long list.........I'd hate to see what you consider long if that is short!
Lemme ask you this: without adding anything you wanna replace that is ALREADY aftermarket or upgraded on your car; what is left to upgrade other than cams?????????? I mean seriously? I'm not talking about body or interior crap; I mean go fast goodies. Injectors and Link are about the only things I can see holding you back other than cams.
400whp isn't a holy grail or anything; it's pretty easy to get to...........
As for a long list of parts, you have to be kidding me...
Uh...........are you kidding me?
Quoting vtecds1:
Here's my list-
Engine (by Class One/ installed by SOLNGV8)
2.0 (bored .20 properly clearanced per piston specs)
Polished crank
Eagle Rods (machined for proper clearances- no good out of the box)
8.3:1 Ross pistons
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Cometic HG
Complete rotating assembly balanced
Head (by Forrester Racing)
FRH bowl porting/valve job
Stock internals
FRH Intake manifold
Turbo & Intake
Turbonetics TO4E 60 trim
Apexi Skyline intercooler
Custom piping
2g mas
Custom tubular manifold
HKS wastegate w/atmosphere dump
1G bov (crushed)
Exhaust (by previous owner Doug Derby)
1G 3" SS custom exhaust turbo back
Suspension
KYB AGX
Whiteline rear and front sway bar
Cooling
Civic radiator
Perma cool fan
Drivetrain
Stock rebuilt tranny @ 56xxx by HPH
ACT 2600
Braided clutch line
Electronics
Greddy Profec B-SpecII boost controller
Blitz Turbo timer
SPI boost gauge.
AEM wideband gauge
Autometer oil pressure gauge
Fuel
Walbro 255 fuel pump-rewired
Fuel Lab 515 AFPR
Ya; I would consider that a long list.........I'd hate to see what you consider long if that is short!
Lemme ask you this: without adding anything you wanna replace that is ALREADY aftermarket or upgraded on your car; what is left to upgrade other than cams?????????? I mean seriously? I'm not talking about body or interior crap; I mean go fast goodies. Injectors and Link are about the only things I can see holding you back other than cams.
400whp isn't a holy grail or anything; it's pretty easy to get to...........
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Valves, valves springs, retainers, cam gears, pulleys, etc...I'm pretty sure there are a lot of other things. They might not or may give me more hp, but keeps me in a comfort zone. I guess my list is nothing compared to some guys on the board, that's why I say it's not a long list. I understand that cams are one of those things that could be on my list, I also understand that it might make it easier, but since you say 400hp is not exactly the holy grail...is it necessary for me to hit that number? If not, I would rather spend the money into something else like bushings or springs.
400hp was always my goal ever since I got the car, that's why I'm stuck on it. I figured it would be relatively easy with what the car had already, but I had to fix all the previous owners mistakes that I didn't catch when I bought it. I have over $16k as of right now(give or take), including the car. I guess that's why I'm at that point where I get second thoughts and need opinions on what to do. I also have a problem that when once I start taking things off to replace, I get the itch to start replacing other things since I'm there already.
400hp was always my goal ever since I got the car, that's why I'm stuck on it. I figured it would be relatively easy with what the car had already, but I had to fix all the previous owners mistakes that I didn't catch when I bought it. I have over $16k as of right now(give or take), including the car. I guess that's why I'm at that point where I get second thoughts and need opinions on what to do. I also have a problem that when once I start taking things off to replace, I get the itch to start replacing other things since I'm there already.
We're not on the same page here...........
I don't understand why you're not at 400whp NOW with your parts list. As I said; cams, injectors and Link with a tune and you're there. ( only caveat is that I don't know the specs on the turbo you listed) By 'holy grail' I meant that 400whp isnt allot. I mean; ya....it's 400whp which is bad ass, but it's not too expensive to attain........
Here's my parts list:
Ordered new:
FP; turbo, mani, fuel pump and gaskets
engine rebuild kit from Parts Dinosaur (rod/main bearings and piston rings)
Fel Pro gasket kit
V3
Used:
bare head
stock flywheel
4-bolt/LSD rear
Evo VIII springs/retainers
fmic/piping/bov
exhaust
non abs lines
880 injectors
BC101's (were on the car when I bought it)
From my old Evo:
manual boost controller
AEM wideband/uego and boost gages
With just that I better hit 350whp or better with a decent tune........
I don't understand why you're not at 400whp NOW with your parts list. As I said; cams, injectors and Link with a tune and you're there. ( only caveat is that I don't know the specs on the turbo you listed) By 'holy grail' I meant that 400whp isnt allot. I mean; ya....it's 400whp which is bad ass, but it's not too expensive to attain........
Here's my parts list:
Ordered new:
FP; turbo, mani, fuel pump and gaskets
engine rebuild kit from Parts Dinosaur (rod/main bearings and piston rings)
Fel Pro gasket kit
V3
Used:
bare head
stock flywheel
4-bolt/LSD rear
Evo VIII springs/retainers
fmic/piping/bov
exhaust
non abs lines
880 injectors
BC101's (were on the car when I bought it)
From my old Evo:
manual boost controller
AEM wideband/uego and boost gages
With just that I better hit 350whp or better with a decent tune........
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I forgot to add that even with the price of the car.........I've spent less than 5k total.......
I haven't hit that goal because I never got the chance to get it tuned. I bought the car in Feb of 2005, put about 4k miles on it and the motor decided to give after 4 months. The car wasn't finished until June 2008. I didn't drive it until summer of last year because I started to lose interest and took my time fixing little things here and there.
When I bought my car, It had 52xxx miles on the clock. Southern, rust free and supposedly had very good mods. This is why I paid premium for it.
When I bought my car, It had 52xxx miles on the clock. Southern, rust free and supposedly had very good mods. This is why I paid premium for it.
