4G63 vs 4B11 what are the difference?

I have been trying to google this up but it usually just leads to some forum with members being like "4G63 for life FTW" or "they switch for a reason 4B11, rub one out" or arguement about the 4G63 having proven it's self and it's too early to tell if the 4B11 is going to be the beast that the 4G63 was.
Well that is all good but I can come to that own. I want to know the differences!

Now as we have see, Mitsubishi upgrades don't always mean 'Better' (cough cough 7 bolt cough cough)

So what I want to know is what are the REAL differences?
I know the 4B11 isn't cast iron like the 4g63 is.

What else is different?

 

[jepherz]

Not sure if this is the appropriate place for this discussion, but there's an entire
wiki article. So from that, there's a timing chain (yay) and the head on the new cars uses a bucket/shim design instead of lifters.

 

[14bCrazy]

It has a open deck block like a Honda motor. Which means it will have to be sleeved to do really big boost.

 

[Terry Posten]

From what I have read, the 4b11 turbo blocks have extra webbing and can hold quite a bit of boost.

I know for a fact that it can hold over 20psi. A Honda block can't do that (for very long anyway).

 

[H05TYL]

Hmm, 4B12 crank in 4B11 block??

 

[ktmrider]

Quoting ihatefall:
So what I want to know is what are the REAL differences?
I know the 4B11 isn't cast iron like the 4g63 is.

What else is different?

Way more differences than similarities. Most have already been mentioned short of the turbo swap which means head casting is 180 different.
The now defunct Turbo magazine ran some great articles over two months on the deltas.
AMS has done tons of work with the 4B11, maybe Mark will chime in later.

 

[Dialcaliper]

The 4B11 is basically a completely different engine. The deck is "semi-closed" which means it still has some deck reinforcement, not like a completely open honda block where the sleeves are self-supporting. Everything has been revised to what *should* be better in terms of reliability, performance and emissions. Timing chain, solid lifters, bigger intake valves, MIVEC on both cams, etc. The only performance downgrade is smaller exhaust valves, which were used mainly to meet emissions restrictions.

Also, the block *is* sleeved with plain grey cast iron from the factory, so it's decently robust without resorting to custom ductile iron sleeves. A recent article about an HKS Evo X (latest issue of Modified Mag) has some HKS folks quoted as saying they think the stock 4B11 block is good for close to 500hp without modification, but that the stock internals are the weak point - mainly because the internals are even lighter than the 4G63 - partly since the engine and valvetrain are rated by Mitsubishi for a rev limit of 8000 rpm.

This kind of makes sense in the context of the WRC environment it was designed for (300hp with a restrictor, with about 500 ft-lbs of torque). Forged internals are allowed, but modification of the block is not (except for normal oversizing).

 

I do remember AMS fielding a white EVO X GSR in last years USCC, and I think it made about 475 whp on the dyno tests.
I have those issues of Turbo in my girlfriend's car, and can recall that there are no balance shafts, and that they use bushings in the cam journals, but cant remember if it's on all the journals or just on the pulley side.

 

the timing chain is great but... an aluminum one? I ride bikes alot and aluminum/ carbon = catastrophic failure whereas as steel starts to break you can feel it.

 

[Wizardawd]

Don't forget that chains stretch a lot over time as well, ask anyone that has done an old V8 timing chain. So while it may not break, the performance of your motor will degrade to the point of straight up being sluggish.

Also, the downsides of chains, they are usually a bit tougher to change out, a lot more expensive, and have a high failure rate from the tentioners. Nissan, Dodge and others were known for the oil-pressure fed tentioner failing and causing the chain to skip.

I'm still interested in the 4B11 future, it has a lot to live up to and thus far has impressed. Will it be able to take the abuse that the 4G63 can handle? Time will tell. But, having Dodge, Hyundai and Mitsu cars powered by the same motor means a metric buttload of parts available which is an incredibly intelligent move imo.

Wiz

 

[G]

I thought the evo x was no longer a rally car? Just a bloated evo/ galant now?

This kind of makes sense in the context of the WRC environment it was designed for (300hp with a restrictor, with about 500 ft-lbs of torque). Forged internals are allowed, but modification of the block is not (except for normal oversizing).

 

[turbowop]

Tanner Foust seems to be doing well in Rally America with his Evo. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[Dialcaliper]

I believe they said almost the same thing when the Evo VII was released based on the new Cedia chassis, after they stopped making Evo VI to Group A specs. That was probably a bigger change to the character of the car, even though the engine did not change as drastically.

The Evo X is still built to be competitive in Group N rally, and more importantly, even though the WRC cars use a completely unique chassis, they still have to use an engine based on the production car.

Even companies like Ford who built AWD WRC cars that did not return any technology to cars available to the public are still using what is a heavily modified version of a 2.0L Duratec engine (granted, with an added turbocharger), with basically the same crank, block and lubrication system found on street cars (That's about all that's left even when comparing WRC and Group N Evos)

It's kind of a moot point now since Mitsubishi and many others have dropped out of WRC, but they and Subaru are still strongly in support of production based Group N rally.


Quoting G:
I thought the evo x was no longer a rally car? Just a bloated evo/ galant now?

This kind of makes sense in the context of the WRC environment it was designed for (300hp with a restrictor, with about 500 ft-lbs of torque). Forged internals are allowed, but modification of the block is not (except for normal oversizing).

 

[fuel]

The 4B1x series was heavily based apon the Hyundai Theta II engines, which is the engine powering the new Hyundai Genesis 2.0 Turbo coupe. The main difference is the cylinder head design, and the Hyundai engine uses a different rod and piston combo, and the Hyundai engine is only 2 bolt mains while the Mitsubishi 4B11 is four bolt mains.

Here's a technical video of the 4B11 - click

bottom end a 4B11, showing four bolt mains (with ARP main studs fitted):

and the Hyundai Theta II engine bottom end in comparison:

 

[Hertz]

4b11t.org Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart 4b11

 

Quoting Dialcaliper:
.... That was probably a bigger change to the character of the car, even though the engine did not change as drastically.



Even companies like Ford who built AWD WRC cars that did not return any technology to cars available to the public are still using what is a heavily modified version of a 2.0L Duratec engine (granted, with an added turbocharger), with basically the same crank, block and lubrication system found on street cars (That's about all that's left even when comparing WRC and Group N Evos)






You are mostly right, but the engine from the 6 to the 7 had hardly any changes at all, just a bit better internal oiling. Its basically the same 4G63 from the evo 4-9, with the 4 having one less main bearing than the 5+, and the 9 getting mivec.

Also, ford does have a turbo Focus, but it is just fwd as you stated.

 

[Rausch]

Quoting Hertz:
4b11t.org



Excellent site!

 

[1990ggsxnj]

A bike chain will have more load than a timing chain. Load variance is very minimal in a timing chain as well.
Quoting ihatefall:
the timing chain is great but... an aluminum one? I ride bikes alot and aluminum/ carbon = catastrophic failure whereas as steel starts to break you can feel it.

 

"A bike chain will have more load than a timing chain. Load variance is very minimal in a timing chain as well.

Quoting ihatefall:
the timing chain is great but... an aluminum one? I ride bikes alot and aluminum/ carbon = catastrophic failure whereas as steel starts to break you can feel it."

I wasn't comparing the chain, actually most bike chains are steel and zinc/nickel coated. I just have broken frames before and its always like WHOA! One time it ended with me in the hospital with a cracked skull and blood in my brain. Aluminum can form minor stress fractures that are too noticeable and then BAMN! snap

 

[Bimmubishi]

This is the most in depth discussion of the differences to date. This is from Tomei.

click


-Alex

www.dentsport.com