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Does anyone make offset cam keys for the 4G63?

I am thinking about centerlining my cams on my car, but don't want adjustable cam gears, I don't like them, but I will use offset keys, I just don't know where to get them.
 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif How would you re-drill them? I don't know how off they are, I won't bother checking until I know I can get them, there is no reason to.

Anyway I'm looking for something like this.


 
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I was thinking your were tryin to rotate the stock cam gears, much like adjustable cam gears move, but you cant because there is a dowel pin. I thought you needed a new place for the dowel pin to be, hence why I suggested drilling.

I have no idea how you would use those keys.. Maybe Im just too out of it.
 

I know they are not for our cams. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif If they were I wouldn't have posted this thread. They are actually the V-8 version of what I am using to degree my Daytona's cam.
 
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Well the ones I linked are what you are looking for and will work with our stock cam gears.
 

Those ones will work? I saw those in my MP book, but I really don't understand how they work.
 

You drill the original hole bigger to the DIA of the offset key, you then insert the offset key you want that will degree the cam you want(make sure the direction is also what you want) and put it in. You just have to figure out which way you want to secure it to the cam gears. I can draw you up a little diagram if you want of how they work.
 
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Awesome, have you ever used those on our cars? Just wondering if the pin diameter is the same.
 

Maybe it's just me, but I initially had trouble visualizing this.
Skip reading the rest of my post if you already understood how an offset woodruff key works /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Basically, forget the dowel pin we use to lock the gear to the cam.
Think of a half-moon cut out of the camshaft. You then have a "key",
also shaped like a half-moon that drops into that machined slot in
the camshaft.

Like this:



So then, you can have a "regular key", a simple half-moon, that would
align with a slotted cam gear at 0 degrees.

Like this:



But, if you wanted to "move the slot", you could machine a specially
offset key like so:



That way, the half moon drops in just as before, but the exposed part that lines up with the cam gear is shifted over.
 
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curtis

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After you get digits offsets in the bolt head should cover them But to be on the safe side take a center punch and stake the edges in the 4 quadrants or 6 or 10 ever how many times you want this will keep them from shifting. Also if you mic the offset bushings and they are .500 get a 7/16 bit to drill the hole you don't want any slop in the system. Take it slow and don't rush. a .500 drill bit will always drill slightly larger because of flex in the bit and or metal shavings eroding metal you want as you drill. reamers are cheap so are stepped drill bits when you compare them to the price of a new head or engine.
 

gtluke

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Joined
Sep 16, 2001
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dirty jersey
i never understood why this wasn't a more popular question.
there should be 5 dowel holes in our cam gears, or someone willing to drill out stockers.
straight up, +2, +4, -2, -4
that how the cam gear is on my mustang.
pick your hole and you get your cam timing.
though, i've seen a thousand dsm's with "cam gears yo" but i've never seen anyone assemble an engine with a degree wheel or ever move the cam gear off "0"
i even like to ask the owners what moving the gears + or - does to the power and they never know :p
 

Quote:
or someone willing to drill out stockers.


Oh Curtis, new job for you buddy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

I think the reason is simple, people will work on their cars for countless hours tuning them, trying to get rid of their knock problems, and trying to make more power; /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif but having to use a dial indicator and a degree wheel is too much work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif. Honestly, the truthful anwser most people don't understand how important it is and some, like me, are worried about using adjustable cam gears.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I'll be honest though I owned a degree wheel, the adapter you need to do a turbo dodge, offset cam keys, everything but a dial indicator for a couple years before I just decided a couple weeks ago to buy a dial indicator and finally degree it.

One of the biggest ricer mods ever!
 

Quote:
You drill the original hole bigger to the DIA of the offset key, you then insert the offset key you want that will degree the cam you want(make sure the direction is also what you want) and put it in. You just have to figure out which way you want to secure it to the cam gears. I can draw you up a little diagram if you want of how they work.


i tried some chevy ones and the dowel is a little bit bigger on the chevys than the dsm. i planned to drill out the hole in the cams and put chevy dowels in. another option is finding some with smaller holes.
 
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Question!

I am trying to figure out another issue. I can understand how this would work for a engine with a single cam gear. But, with dual overhead cams, I see a problem. If the cam gears have teeth and the belt has teeth, and the gears are a set distance apart, then you can only degree the cams one tooth at a time. So, it seems to me that you would need to be very careful or you could mess up the belt tension between the gears, and the cams would rotate after you lined them up.

I see the same problem with the adjustables, but at least you could change the degree a bit. I guess my overall though is that you may not get them exactly where you want.

Am I not understanding something?
 

It doesn't move the cam gear in the timing belt. It moves the cam inside the head forward or back while the gear stays in the same space. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif Hence degreeing the CAM, not the cam gear.
 
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curtis

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Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
11,892
Location
Clarksville TN
Adjusting the 5.0's and chevy's have been a secret to some for ever. Lots of the guys will buy a motorsport agjustable set-up and install it straight up. Luke if I'm wrong yell but If you retard the cams 4 degrees the power band rises and if you advance the cams the power banc drops. For a 5.0 I can't remember how much I think it was about 150 to 200 rpms per degree. With that said. Advancing a street car with bigger turbos would help with bottom end grunt and retarding a track car to pull top end would help.


Now for doing it on ours

Buy the chevy kit and drill out the gears You'll also have to enlarge the hole for a same size dia. chevy dowel. Most cam companies like lunati or comp that do alot of chevy stuff will have chevy dowels. Or use a stepped dowel pin mosted stepped dowels are made so they can't come out large on the inside small on the outside. With this it will be oposite. When I installed my crowers I didn't get any dowels so I cut a metric bolt (grade 8)to work. Not the thread but the un threaded section below the head. They've been in there for 3 years so I guess it worked. Chevys are standard and american so I I would bet a 5/16, 1/4 or 3/8 inch grade eight would work. Next time I see a set on the shielf I'll pick a set up and see what happens.
 

using a bolt might work on a dsm but i assure you that sh*t wouldnt fly on a solid roller cam domestic. im not sure i would use a bolt even in a dsm. that same hardware store you bought the bolt from more than likely carries hardened dowel pins as well.

moving the cams around to 'move' your power band can be helpful but another reason to degree in the cams is to make sure they are ground/installed on the proper lobe center.
 
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